Gibb said that Lori called Charles was called Ned Schneider and that she got that name from Chad. Gibb said that Lori told her about a dream she had when Charles was out of town about Charles and JJ being in a car crash and were not going to come back. After the dream, Lori told Gibb Charles turned dark.
Blake asked Gibb if she was ever there for a casting. She said that she was. She said that the ladies would stand in a circle, some would say a prayer, and some would send spiritual weapons. She said that the people who were having the spirits cast of out them were not physically there. Gibb testified that when they did the casting for Charles, Chad said that Ned left but then shortly after another entity went in his body. Gibb said that there were additional castings in relation to Charles, which she participated in. She said they tried to cast the next evil spirit out of Charles, and it worked, according to Lori. Lori said she received this information from Chad, but when Charles' didn't die Chad told Lori that another entity came into his body. Gibb said that Chad was present for some of the castings.
Gibb said that another casting that was done was Brandon Boudreaux, which she and Chad were present for. Gibb said she had met Brandon, who was Lori's niece's husband at the time, and Lori told her that he was designated dark by Chad.
Blake asked Gibb if Lori had ever preformed castings on Tammy. Gibb said yes, but she wasn't present for them. Blake then asked if there was ever casting done on JJ and Tylee. She said not that she knew of.
Gibb stated that the casting for Charles happened between January and February 2019 until before he died.
Gibb said that she was told that if the casting was done right that the body would die. Blake then asked if she had been told if violence would be done to the body. Gibb said never.
Blake asked Gibb if there were others involved in the castings besides her. She replied yes that there were some that had more involvement than others like Lori and Zulema.
Gibb then testified that at the casting that Chad was present at was in Arizona.
Gibb testified that Charles was killed on July 11th, 2019, which was shortly after the castings took place. Blake asked Gibbs if she started to believe Charles was possessed. She answered that she did to some level. She testified that she met Charles a handful of times, but didn't know him very well and most of what she knew about him she got from Lori.
Gibb then testified how she stayed with Lori in July 2019 and at some point, Lori asked her to leave. She said that she woke up early in the morning and Lori told her that she needed to leave because "Charles was driving in from Texas and was going to kill her." Lori also told Gibb that Alex was going to be there to protect her.
Gibb then testified to Alex and Lori's relationship with each other. She said that they had a close brother and sister relationship, but nothing unusual. She testified that Chad had told Lori that Alex was designated her protector.
Blake asked Gibb if she ever heard Charles threaten Lori. Gibb said no.
After Charles was killed, Gibb said Lori told her Charles came in from Texas and that they were arguing. She said that Lori said that she grabbed his cellphone, and he was really upset with her. They were standing around the kitchen and Tylee had a bat and was trying to protect her mom or herself. Then Charles and Alex got into a physical fight and then Alex went to get a gun to defend himself/ Gibb was told that then Alex shot and killed Charles.
Gibb testified that when she talked to Alex and Lori about what had happened it was about four days later and there was no sign of grief or sadness. She said that Alex though, seemed thoughtful and unsure of himself.
Gibb said she saw Chad a few weeks after Charles died at Lori's house in Arizona. Blake asked her if Tammy was still alive at that time. She said she was.
Gibb said that Chad and Lori were super excited to be together. They were standing side-by-side at the kitchen table with several people and were excited to share their future plans together. Gibb said that there were no signs of grief from Chad.
Court took a break and when they came back Gibb testified that before Charles' death she had conversations with Lori about her relationship with Chad. Gibb said Lori told her they really loved each other, and they had multiple lives together, they had missions together and there was physical affection and contact. Lori told Gibb that every time they would get together, she would pray to Jesus and ask him if it was ok. Then she would meet up with him at hotels.
Gibb said she had asked Lori why they were they didn't get divorces. Lori said that Chad said that if he got a divorce, he would lose his exaltation. Gibb then testified that Charles had started divorce proceedings.
Blake asked Gibb if she saw Lori with more than one phone. Gibb said yes, she saw Lori with three phones. Lori had told Gibb that one was her personal phone, the other phone was just for Chad. Gibb didn't know what the third one was for. Gibb said that Lori said that Chad a special phone just for her. Gibb testified that Lori and Chad talked daily.
Blake asked Gibb what the names that Lori and Chad had in prior lives. Gibb said she couldn't remember the names, but she did remember that Lori was married to Moroni, James and she was Chad’s wife, but he was James, and she was Elaina. Chad was considered to be Methuselah and she was his daughter. Another time she was a lady who was married to a relative of Joseph Smith.
Gibb said that when Lori was Elaina, Chad was James which was one of the apostles of Jesus. She said Lori learned this information from Chad. Gibb said Lori told her that Chad would sit in his portal and ask questions to get his information. Gibb said that she saw Lori’s portal and it was nothing but just a spot in her closet. Gibb said that it was Chad that told and taught Lori about the portal.
Gibb testified that she last saw Tylee in Arizona in July or August of 2019.
Blake asked Gibb if she recalled Lori leaving Arizona. Gibb said yes that Lori told her she needed to go to Idaho to be with Chad and start their missions together. Gibb confirmed that at that point Tammy was still alive.
Gibb testified that at some point, Lori had told her that Tylee was dark. Blake then asked her where Lori got that information and Gibb responded that she guessed from Chad because generally Lori would turn to Chad for these answers.
Gibb testified that she saw Chad use a pendulum once to get his answers. She said the pendulum was gold or brass and was pointy with a string. She said it was in February 2019 in Boise. Gibb was there for a conference. She said that Chad, Zulema, Sarina and Audrey and other people were at the conference. Gibb said that she believed that Lori was in Hawaii and that was why she wasn't at that conference.
Gibb testified that when Lori moved to Idaho it was after Charles had been killed and JJ, Tylee and Alex went with her. The move also came after Chad told Lori that Alex was her protector.
Gibb said that after Lori moved to Idaho, she spoke to Lori on the phone. She said that Lori was in her apartment playing games with Alex and Tylee. Gibb confirmed that she heard Tylee in the background and that it was August or September.
Gibb testified that she visited Lori the weekend of Sept. 22, 2019, because there was a conference in Rexburg, and also, she was going to record a podcast with Lori. She said that they had recorded podcasts together before. Gibb said she stayed with Lori and when they arrived at the home, Alex and JJ were there. She said that occasionally Chad would come over. Gibb her husband David Warick, who was her boyfriend and the time, was also there. Gibb testified that Alex had his own apartment but would be at Lori's at times.
Gibb testified that she never saw Tylee in Idaho and when asked Lori where Tylee was, Lori said that she was at BYU-Idaho with her roommates. She said that Lori never talked about Tylee again, Tylee never came and visited, and she never heard Lori talk on the phone to her.
Gibb said that she stayed in Tylee’s room and that the only thing that was in there was furniture.
Gibb said that Lori told her that the day before she arrived JJ became dark. Gibb confirmed that Lori had told her before that Tylee was dark. Gibb said that she didn’t observe any behaviors from JJ that caused her concern.
Blake asked Gibb what JJ and Chad's interactions were like with each other. Gibb said that she arrived on a Wednesday and the next day, JJ was upset, and Chad took him upstairs. After a period of time, Chad came back downstairs holding his hand and had a red scratch on his neck. Gibb asked him what happened, and Chad said JJ had scratched him.
Blake asked Gibb if during the weekend she was visiting, was Tammy was still alive, Gibb said yes. She said she heard Chad talk a little about Tammy. She said David asked Chad questions about Tammy. Chad asked David not to tell anyone about his relationship with Lori. She said that heard Chad say that Tammy was a good wife and never heard anything about a divorce or separation.
Gibb testified that while she was there, Chad and Lori seemed to be a couple that was close, loved each other and were very affectionate. She said that Lori would kiss him on the cheek, they sang together and danced a little. Gibb said that when they around the BYU-Idaho campus, Chad and Lori were holding hands. Gibb asked them if they were concerned Tammy might see them together. Lori said Tammy was not aware of his personal life like that – where he went. Gibb confirmed there was no indication of divorce or separation.
Gibb testified that Lori told her that Sept. 22nd was a special day for her. She said it was the anniversary of when she saw Moroni in the temple.
Gibb testified that the last time she saw JJ was Sunday night on the 22nd. She said that she was doing recording with Lori and David when Alex walked in the door holding JJ on the shoulder. She said that JJ was asleep, and Alex was taking him to bed. She said that JJ often slept in the corner of his mom’s room in a little bed. He also had his own bedroom. JJ did not sleep in his bedroom that night because she was in JJ’s room. She said she ended up in JJ's room because she was in there talking with David. She said that it was her understanding that JJ went to bed in Lori's room that night.
Gibb then talked about David having a nightmare that night. She said that David woke up with a panic and that he was very disturbed by the dream. Gibb called out to get help from Lori and/or Chad to ask for a priesthood blessing of comfort. Gibb texted or called Chad, but he didn’t respond. Gibb said that this was sometime in the early morning hours. Gibb texted and called Lori, but she didn’t answer either, so she went to Lori’s room, but it was locked.
Gibb testified that she never saw JJ again.
Blake asked Gibb if she Lori talked about how she was going to survive after Charles died. Lori told Gibb that she was receiving JJ's Social Security and SS from Charles. Gibb didn't think that Lori ever received any life insurance from Charles. She also said that Lori didn't have a job that she was aware of.
Gibb testified that Lori told her that JJ was acting out more and was acting like he was possessed. She said that Lori seemed troubled, JJ had been taken over by an evil spirit. Lori told her that she wanted Kay Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother, to take him. She told Gibb that she wanted to meet up with Kay at the airport and tell her that she had cancer so she would take JJ.
Gibb said that Lori said that she eventually met with Kay and gave her JJ.
Gibb said that the morning after she last saw JJ, Lori said JJ was with Alex. She later told Gibb that she met up with Kay in the Salt Lake City airport, and Kay took JJ.
Gibb said that in Nov. 2019, two or three days before Thanksgiving, Chad called her when she was in Utah. Chad told her that the Rexburg police were going to call her and ask about JJ. He asked her not to pick up the phone. He said Lori told the police Gibb had JJ. Gibb testified that Chad sounded nervous during the call. Gibb said that she had asked Chad "He's not with Kay?" And Chad told her no. She said that then Chad told her that Lori would call her shortly, that she was talking with police.
Gibb said that when she talked to Lori, Lori was very positive and upbeat. Lori said that she was protecting Tylee and JJ because Kay and others were trying to kidnap him. She then told Gibb to go to the movie "Frozen" and take pictures of other kids to make it look like she took him.
Gibb said that when law enforcement first reached out to her, she didn't respond.
Gibb said that at some point Alex told her law enforcement had come to his house and Melani P's house to ransack his house and asked where JJ was. Alex told her that law enforcement were considered dark translated beings. Gibb testified that Chad determined who was dark. Gibb did not initially answer the call from the police because she said she didn't know what to do. She ended up calling Gilbert, Arizona, Police telling then that she had JJ but no longer had him and he was back with Lori.
Gibb said the day she was originally going to talk with the police, she got a call from an old friend who was an attorney. She said that she told her friend about the situation and the attorney suggested a welfare check be done. She said the attorney reached out to police and requested a welfare check. Gibb said at the time she was concerned about JJ and Tylee's wellbeing.
Gibb testified that she later sat down with law enforcement and told them everything without an attorney present. She told them that JJ had never been with her.
Gibb said that after Thanksgiving she and David called Chad and Lori and asked them where JJ was. She said that Chad and Lori would not tell her.
Gibb said she spoke with Alex a day or two after Thanksgiving and told him her concerns about JJ. Gibb that she was walking with Alex and Melani P. in a field behind Zulema's house. She said she asked Alex, “Do I want to know here JJ is?” Gibb said that Alex told her no. He then proceeded to tell her about the police coming to his apartment.
Gibb then testified that she had David in the room with her when she called Chad and Lori on Dec. 8, 2019. She said she recorded the call. Blake then admitted the call into evidence.
Chad- “Hello, sweet Melanie.”
Melanie G- “Hi, Chad. Hey, Lori.”
Chad- "Here, let me put it on speaker.”
Melanie G- “Oh, OK.”
Chad- “All right.”
Chad- “We’re inept with the phone.”
Melanie- “How are you guys?”
Chad- “We’re okay, how are you doing babe?”
Melanie- “I’m doing pretty good, thanks. I was wondering, where are you guys?”
Chad- “We’re just hanging out.”
Melanie- “Hanging out? Are you? Are you in Idaho?”
Lori- “No.”
Chad- “We’re nowhere near Idaho. ”
Melanie- “I just wanted to ask you a question if you don’t mind, Lori.”
Lori- “Of course, honey.”
Melanie- “I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay’s [Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother and Lori’s sister-in-law from prior husband Charles Vallow] house? And he told me they went there. And now he’s not there. I was wondering what happened?”
Lori- “Well, I had to move in somewhere else because of her actions. So…”
Melanie- “Was she, was she doing something? Like was she trying to come get them or something or, like trying to kidnap them?”
Lori- “Well, she’s, yeah, she said that often times before, but, umm…”
Melanie- “Okay. Well, you know, when I asked Chad the other day, I was like, hey, you know, where is JJ? And he said for my security, he didn’t want me to know. So is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?”
Lori- “No, it’s nobody. It’s his danger. It’s the danger that there’s people after me.”
Melanie- “Okay.”
Chad- “We just thought if you knew, that puts you in a danger.”
Lori- “Well, just in a bad position.”
Chad- “Yeah, a bad position for her.”
Lori- “Everybody. If they don’t know anything, then they don’t have to say they know.”
Melanie- “Right? So you’re just worried, okay.”
Lori- “I’m just, keep him protected…”
Chad- “And keep you protected.”
Lori- “And keep everybody else.”
Melanie- “I appreciate that. Well, I was wondering why you told the police why he was with me.”
Lori- “I just needed to use, talk somebody, so I wouldn’t have to tell them where he really was if they were going to tell Kay where he is.”
Melanie- “Oh yeah, so is it you think it’s like your family? Or you know, like your family, your dad or you know or those people?”
Lori- “Well my family, well not my whole family but as you know, most of my family is working against me and–”
Melanie- “Yeah.”
Lori - “–with her, basically.”
Melanie- “Yeah. Is JJ safe?”
Lori- “He is safe and happy.”
Melanie- “Okay, well, that’s good to hear. Are you afraid of anything? Like, are you afraid to tell me that you’re just afraid that he, umm, that I could be in danger? Like you’re, y’know like I don’t, like if I knew, like, how could that hurt me? I don’t understand all that can hurt me if I knew where he was.”
Lori- “Well, I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or question to where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.”
Melanie- “Yeah. Okay, I hope, wow. I hope he’s okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question. I asked Al at one point, your brother if I wanted to know, you know, like where he was? And he said, I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean?”
Lori- “I don’t know why he would say that. But it’s the same story. I didn’t even want Al to know I don’t want anybody to know so that nobody has to be worried about it. I mean, nobody has to be–”
Melanie- “Yeah.”
Lori- “–questioned about it so he can be safe.”
Melanie- “Yeah, so are you I mean, are you — How long are you gonna be away for? Like how, I mean, are you ever going to be able to come out and come back to society again? Are you going to keep, you know, like, come back? I mean, like, what does that look like?”
Lori- “I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do every day so…”
Melanie- “Okay. I just wondered if I was ever going to see you again.”
Lori- “Absolutely, you will.”
Melanie- “Okay, so, so maybe when they’re done chasing you, you’ll be able to come out of, JJ will come out again? Or…”
Lori- “Yeah, I mean, it’s a ridiculous thing for them to be working with Kay to find me there’s nothing that’s gone on that’s, y’know what I’m saying? Like, they’re working with her in some dark capacity. The police are working with her in some dark capacity. There’s no reason for them to be after me in the first place.”
Melanie- “Yeah. Has she, has she threatened you at all?”
Lori- “Yes, lots of times.”
Melanie- “Oh boy. What did she say?”
Lori- “Well, it’s in emails and everything. So…”
Melanie- “So, like she said she was gonna come take them or she was…”
Lori- “There’s a lot of things…”
Melanie- “Yeah.”
Lori- “…Melanie.”
Melanie- “Well I know it sounds like it. I’m just worried for you guys because you know, he’s missing. And, you know…”
Lori- “I know exactly where he is. He’s perfectly fine with me.”
Melanie- “Okay, well, I hope so.”
Lori- “(Unintelligible)”
Melanie- “I have a scripture I wanted to share with you if you don’t mind.”
Lori- “I’d love it.”
Melanie- “I was thinking about some of the things you guys have gone through. And I saw this scripture today. And I wanted to–”
Lori- “Let me ask you a question.”
Melanie- “Okay, yeah.”
Lori- “Let me ask you a question about a scripture, ‘kay? Did Alma turn yourself into King Noah? Or what it was he required to be?”
Melanie- “Well, King Noah was incredibly wicked.”
Lori- “Yes.”
Melanie- “And so he fled his, his evil ways which is, which is adultery and, and living riotously and breaking all the commandments.”
Lori- “Right. So, what did he, what was he required to do, Alma?”
Melanie- “He had to go and flee so that he would be safe and then help other people realize how, you know, jacked up the system was and the government was.”
Lori- “What about Moroni? What was he required to do at the end?”
Melanie- “To, to carry Alma’s plates and bury them. That was his responsibility,”
Lori- “What did he do that? What did he have to do to do that? Did he hide?”
Melanie- “Well, he had to hide. He had to hide because they were so–”
Lori- “Oh.”
Melanie- “They were so, everybody was killing everybody in this society everybody was dying. They were killing all the Nephites.”
Lori- “That’s, that’s, and the scriptures had to hide in the cavity of a rock by day and go out by night.”
Melanie- “The prophets, the prophets, the prophets did.”
Lori- “They did.”
Melanie- “Yep. Okay, well thank you for sharing that with me. Okay, I just, this scripture’s just something that may be thoughtful for you. ‘For behold– ‘This is Doctrine and Covenants Section 3, Verse 7 and 8. Says, ‘For behold you should not have feared man more than God. Although man set not the councils of God to despise his words, yet you should have been faithful, and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary. He would have been with you in every trouble.’ So, when we work with the Lord and are obedient, he has, he’s gonna protect us from adversarial darts and all kinds of negativity, but when we open the door to Satan, he comes in and then he attacks and then he takes away to make it look like somebody else took it away. But that’s not how God works. He doesn’t work in darkness.”
Lori- “I agree with you one hundred percent. And that’s what the Lord is doing for me. Exactly what he’s doing for me.”
Melanie- “Well, I was just–”
Lori- “We have not opened the door to darkness, Mel. Darkness is knocking on the door all the time, because that’s the way dark works with the light. And I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case. But sometimes you have to hide in a cavity of a rock for your own life safety. And that’s what the Lord requires of you sometimes. And that’s how it is. And I’m sorry that’s how it is because there’s a lot of darkness on the earth.”
Melanie- “I know.”
Lori- “That’s been after me for zero reason, besides the darkness of Kay, which you already know, she’s dark.”
Melanie- “I haven’t met her enough to know if she’s dark or not. I’ve just met her slightly and she seemed like a normal kind of person, but then I haven’t engaged with her that much. So I don’t know that personally.”
Lori- “So you don’t know about her changing the things for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy and also none of that’s dark right.”
Melanie- “Well, I haven’t seen those documents, so I have no way of knowing.”
Lori- “You’ve seen them on my computer.”
Melanie- “No, I have not. I haven’t even looked on your computer before. You haven’t showed me anything.”
Lori- “I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call.”
Melanie- “Well–”
Lori- “But I love you with all my heart and I have forever and I will always–”
Melanie- “Well, I appreciate those words. But if you really love me, you wouldn’t have told the police that I had JJ with me. That’s not, that’s not what a friend does. I mean, that just makes me look weird. And it just, it’s not safe. For me. That doesn’t look good. You have to think of my welfare if you love me.”
Lori- “I do, and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do. And I appreciate you and I love you.”
Melanie- “Well–”
Lori- “And I’d never to do anything to harm you. And you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord.”
Melanie- “I have and my, my conscience is clear. I feel very understanding what’s really going on, Lori. And I believe that, I believe that you have been very deceived by Satan. I believe that he has tricked you. And I just, I don’t believe that what you’re doing is correct. I just don’t, I mean, Tammy dies. And then your husband died. And then, and then he’s missing it just doesn’t sound like God’s plan to me. Just sounds, it gives me a gut feeling, like in my gut, it feels weird. It doesn’t feel right. I don’t have peace about I never have felt one-hundred percent peace about always felt like a little weird in my stomach about all these things.”
Lori- “You know me, Mel. You know me. This does not sound like you. It sounds like you’ve been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things and have fear and have fear of the Celestial world.”
Melanie- “I don’t have fear.”
Lori- “You obviously do.”
Melanie- “No, I have a peace of conscience and I can see clearly.”
Lori- “Well I’m sorry that you feel that way. I love you so much.”
Melanie- “I know you do. I don’t know what else to say.”
Lori- “Stand for Christ when he comes again and he’s coming soon, and we will all stand there, and you will know at that point that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time and I have not been deceived.”
Chad- “I just want to testify that I, I know Tammy [Daybell, Chad’s deceased first wife who died in October 2019] loves (unintelligible) and the conspiracy theories. My sister-in-law’s right behind it all and I hope that you’re not being influenced by dark game.”
Melanie- “I don’t know who she is. I’m sorry. You said your sister-in-law? I don’t even know her.”
Chad- “I know, but she’s coming up with the same type of theories. And it’s just not true. My own children were there. They testified that Tammy had been getting weaker and sick and I begged her to go to the doctor. There’s, she just, her heart was failing her. She was physically falling apart. And she hates doctors and she just passed away. That’s how it happened. My son Garth was right there with me the whole time. My kids were at the house within 20 minutes of her passing. There were two coroners. They checked her out right there on the bed. All these conspiracy theories just make me sick to my stomach. Just absolutely sick. I know, I’ve been told for years that Tammy would pass away at a young age. I had no idea that Lori would even be a part of my life. I just knew that my life had two segments and that I know Tammy’s on a special mission and she’s with my kids. She’s visited them. Just, there’s so much, Melanie, that you just have to have faith. And this is not some sort of master plan. There’s no way Lori and I could have ever come up with this. It’s just…”
Melanie- “You can understand my concern, correct?”
Chad- “I can, from an outside perspective. But, from an–”
Lori- “From someone who knows as much as you know? No, not really. But we can feel Dave’s [Warwick, Melanie’s boyfriend] influence on you. I can feel that for sure.”
Melanie- “He’s a very good man. And he has a very strong foundation. That I know.”
Lori- “I know, but he seems to be the one that’s putting the doubts in your mind.”
Melanie- “No, no, but, you know what? I have, I have come to understand that my gut feeling, I was not listening to it. And I always felt uncomfortable with many things.”
Chad- “Okay.”
Lori- “Well, I’m sorry that I included you in those teachings then for your own sake because I wish that you didn’t have as much knowledge as you have, because you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have, Mel.”
Melanie- “So will you.”
Lori- “I agree. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I have no fear. I have no fear of that that. But–”
Melanie- “I was reading the story of Korihor and it’s so very similar to this, you just can’t see it. But he did it because he was trying to reclaim a people and he thought at the very end because of his carnal and natural desires. That’s what influenced him. And he was very, very–”
Lori- “That’s me? And carnal natural desires?”
Melanie- “Well honey, you got a lot of natural desires. We all know that.”
Lori- “That’s what you think is me? Korihor? Are you kidding me right now?”
Melanie- “I think both of you have had similar, similarities. It’s in the scriptures. It’s in the scriptures. And the scriptures are very powerful.”
Lori- “Yes, they are. I live by the scriptures, as you know.”
Melanie- “I know, but we can wrest the Scriptures for our own vainglory.”
Lori- “I wrested the scriptures?”
Melanie- “We can. We can do that, and I feel that you have to (unintelligible) our belief systems.”
Lori- “Do I wrest the scriptures? That was you’re accusing me of at this point?”
Melanie- “I feel that you have.”
Lori- “How, why do you feel that way? I need an explanation on this.”
Melanie- “Because if you look like the scripture, just said, okay–”
Lori- “(Unintelligible) the scriptures every single day? Do you know?”
Melanie- “Oh, I know you read them. I don’t doubt that. But this scripture right here says that you will be supported by all against the fiery darts of the adversary. You would have been supported. If you had not opened dark portals and dark junk. You would have been safe. If you would have obeyed God, he would have had your back but you have been chased and tortured and–”
Lori- “(Unintelligible)”
Melanie- I’m sorry?”
Lori- “He has my back, so…”
Melanie- “Well, if he has your back, you would not not be able to tell me where you are. And we couldn’t find JJ. Like, where is he? I’ve been asking. Where is he? And you know what I mean? That’s, that’s not the Lord’s work.”
Lori- “I could tell everything where JJ is right now and that would not be good for JJ. So, I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children. But I would never ask you to not protect your children.”
Melanie- “Of course you wouldn’t.”
Lori- “So I can tell that you’re just adversarial, Mel. I love you. I’m sorry that you feel this way.”
Melanie- “I’m not, this is because I actually do care. I’m sharing what I feel for you because I know your salvation’s in trouble for what you’ve done.”
Lori- “My salvation’s not in trouble at all and I think you should check that with the Lord again.”
Melanie- “Well I, I, I felt a lot of things from the Lord. And this doesn’t feel right.”
Lori- “Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way, sweetheart. I’m sorry that you’re friends with all those who are are against me. Joseph Smith’s friends turned against him.”
Melanie- “I’m not friends with people that are against you.”
Lori- “Apparently you are.”
Melanie- “I am not. I don’t know Kay. I don’t know who you’re talking about, your sister-in-law. I don’t even know what her name or who she is. I don’t know any of those people. Why would they contact me anyway? How would I even know about that?”
Lori- “Well, you’re friends with Dave and he’s apparently against me now.”
Melanie- “Well, David is a very righteous man. And I’ve always known that grounding about him. And he has a lot of beautiful experiences with the Lord. And these are not the same. You know, when you get the Priesthood. That’s Peter, James and John shows up and then he confirms all those in the circle that are to get it and everybody’s a witness of that. Everybody’s a witness that the pattern is in the scriptures. There’s no witness that you ever receive what you think you’ve received. Nobody has seen that but you. There’s no witness the witness Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, Martin Harris. The eight witnesses. They all showed up.”
Lori- “Was there a witness when Jesus and Heavenly Father gave that to Joseph Smith by himself in the Grove, was there a witness?”
Melanie- “No, but they had it later with other people. That was one experience, but others joined in later when he brought other people into it. And they had experiences.”
Lori- “(Unintelligible) Was that in the scriptures? Yes or no?”
Melanie- “I’m sorry?”
Lori- “Is that the scriptures? Yes, or no?”
Melanie- “That, that Joseph was alone when he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ?”
Lori- “Yes.”
Melanie- “Yes, he was alone.”
Lori- “He was alone.”
Melanie- “But he opened up–”
Lori- “So that’s not a pattern at all.”
Melanie- “Honey, what I’m saying is, is that after he saw that and other people joined in, they saw the things with him. He wasn’t alone. There was a witness for them. There was no witness anybody’s never seen what you’ve seen or experienced what you’ve seen. That is your own witness, but nobody’s had that.”
Lori- “I know God knows it, and I will never deny it. For my soul would be at stake if I did. So you can say it didn’t happen to me, Mel. But if I say it, then I am accountable. You didn’t witness it. But I did.”
Melanie- “But your behaviors is not, okay–”
Lori- “(Unintelligible) Jesus Christ.”
Melanie- “I understand that’s what you, you believe you saw but this is the thing is I see is that your behaviors not one of somebody that’s seen Christ.”
Lori- “Never (unintelligible)”
Melanie- “Your behavior, your behavior. What?”
Lori- “Never had any idea that you would be the person, of all people, to drag me. I cannot believe it.”
Melanie- “I’m asking questions and I am concerned for you. That is what somebody does when they care.”
Lori- “You don’t sound like you’re concerned. You sound like you’re accusatory. You do not sound concerned. You sound pissed off.”
Melanie- “I’m not. I am very, I am troubled. Maybe that’s the better word: troubled. Because these things, like you being with Chad before he’s even divorced, is unusual behavior for a person that’s seen Jesus Christ.”
Lori- “I was never with him and he was never divorced.”
Melanie- “Honey, I’ve seen you guys together.”
Lori- “That’s your story. (Unintelligible)”
Melanie- “Oh, oh. So, I haven’t ever seen you with, I’ve never seen you with Chad, kiss him and walk around the track and BYU with him. I never saw that? You say I’m–”
Lori- “You’re the one who’s feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced.”
Melanie- “Oh honey. I think that’s not what we’re talking about here.”
Lori- “It’s not what we’re talking about here. That’s why I’m saying. You aren’t going off the deep end. But–”
Melanie- “I’m just saying, this is not a behavior of someone that sees Jesus Christ. It’s not the behavior.”
Lori- “Really?”
Melanie- “Really.”
Lori- “Have you ever seen Jesus Christ so do you know what the future behavior would be if you’d seen Jesus Christ?”
Melanie- “I know that when I, I know that when I pray–”
Lori- “(Unintelligible) each of you every day and he does protect me and he is protecting me, and he will protect me against this accusation as well. And we will both stand there with him. And you tell me if I was lying or not when we’re both standing there with Jesus Christ.”
(Call disconnects)
Melanie- “Okay.”
Now there are a few things you need to know about some of the words that were mentioned in this call.
Korihor is an anti-Christ type figure in the Book of Mormon.
King Noah was a pretty bad guy as well. He was best known for burning the prophet Abinadi at the stake. It is also said that he presided over a wicked kingdom guided by false priests.
Blake asked Gibb if she knew where Chad and Lori were during the call. She answered no. Blake then asked her if they seemed upset. Gibb confirmed that they seemed they were in good moods.
Blake asked Gibb if she knew who Lori was referencing when she said that there were people after her. Gibb said Lori was talking about Kay and Lori’s brother Adam and the police. Lori told her that they were all dark and they knew who she was spiritually, and their goal was to take JJ, and her life may have been in danger. Blake asked Gibb again to confirm who chose if people were light or dark. Gibb answered that it was Chad.
Blake asked Gibb, "You talk in there to her about why she would say JJ was with you correct?' Gibb said that was right. Blake then said," Lorie makes a comment along the lines of 'she just needed someone, so she didn't have to say where he really was.'" Gibb replied yes. Blake asked Gibb if Lori ever told her where JJ was. Gibb said no. Blake then asked Gibb if Lori ever mentioned what she meant by the comment in the phone call that "JJ is safe and happy". Gibb said that she didn't think so. Gibb confirmed that the phone call was on December 8th of 2019 and that the last time she saw JJ alive was September 22nd of 2019.
Blake said that in the recording that Lori mentioned Kay as being dark. Gibb said that was right. Gibb then testified that she had briefly met Kay at that point. Blake asked Gibb who the sister-in-law Chad was referring to in the call. Gibb said it was Heather Daybell and Gibb had never met her before.
Blake said that in the call Chad said that "Tammy was physically falling apart and she just passed away", but that he also mentioned "That he knew for some time that she was going to die" and that, "He was going to have a second part to his life." Gibb said that that was right, and that Chad had shared that information publicly at a few conferences that she was going to pass away early. She agreed that Lori also believed Tammy was going to pass away early. She said that Lori got that information from Chad.
Gibb said that Lori felt like Gibbs was in danger for turning on the teachings of Chad and Lori and that she would have to account for it in the next life.
Gibb testified that she wasn't always comfortable with all of the things that Lori and Chad taught. She said how at some point they referred to dark people as zombies and being married multiple times was different. She said there was some uncertainty in their teaches and she never believed 100 percent of it.
Blake said that in the recording Lori said she knew where JJ was, and Chad was right there with her. Gibb said that was correct.
The court took a lunch break.
Blake asked if she knew the date of when Tammy died. Gibb said it was in Oct. 2019. Gibb said she reached out to Lori, and it seemed like Lori already knew of Tammy's death. Gibb said she had talked to Lori before Tammy died and Lori told her that eventually Tammy was supposed to continue her mission on the other side of the veil and that she would be ok with Lori being with Chad.
Gibb testified that she first heard Tammy referred to as dark at the end of September or early October 2019. Gibb confirmed again that Chad was the one who would label people dark. Gibb said Lori told her that Tammy became suspicious about her relationship with Chad.
Blake asked if the teachings of life and dark evolved at some point. Gibb said yes, dark people were then zombies. She testified that other teachings evolved too.
Blake then asked if Lori ever said she believed Chad. Gibb said that Lori mentioned once or twice, “If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.” Gibb said that gave her some indication that there was some doubt.
Blake asked Gibb if Alex told her if he believed Chad. Gibb said she asked Alex if he 100% believed zombies were really true. Alex told her he 100% believed it. Blake has no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. He told Gibb that he wanted to go through a timeline with her. He asked her when she had met Chad. She said the Summer of 2017 at the Preparing a People conference. She described the conference as some people shared about science, some shared about the Book of Mormon, some shared their visions, some shared about ancient scriptures, some shared about stars, etc. Gibb said that she had been to two mountain retreats and also to conferences a handful of times. She said she met her husband at a previous religious conference.
Prior asked Gibb if the religious conferences are consistent with her religious beliefs the LDS faith. Gibb said mostly.
Prior asked Gibb what was the difference between visions and premonitions. Gibb said that a vision to her is something that feels like it’s actually happening while premonition is a gut feeling.
Prior asked Gibb how long she has been married to David Warwick. She says 3.5 years and after they got married, they lived together 9-10 months but now they live in different households by choice. Gibb lives in Arizona, and Warwick lives in Utah.
Prior then asked about dreams and visions. Gibb said that dreams are a little different than visions. She said that doesn’t have visions, but her faith believes people can have them. Prior asked if her husband has the gift of having dreams and visions. Gibb said yes. She confirmed that she believed, at one point, that Chad could have dreams and visions.
Gibb testified that before the conference in St. George where Chad met Lori, she had already heard that Chad had visions that his wife Tammy was going to have a short life. Prior asked Gibb if the only people she knew to that had visions were Chad and Warwick. She replied that no, there were others.
Prior asked Gibb to explain what energy work. Gibb said that a practitioner communicates with you or your body with a certain method they use through muscle testing. They ask questions about what’s going on in your body physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and the practitioner find different ways to make you feel better.
Prior asked Gibb what vibrations are. She that to her your body can have different vibrations and the vibrations can be positive. She said some people describe spiritual things as vibrations. Gibb said everything has a vibration and that vibrations are a frequency people put off. Prior asked if the frequency gives revelation. Gibb said not for her.
Prior asked if the light and dark teachings were inconsistent with the LDS faith. Gibb said yes.
Prior said at the conference where Lori and Chad first met, Chad was there to sell books. Gibb said correct. Prior asked about the book Gibb wrote. She said she started to write it in the middle of 2018 bout her LDS faith and it was called “Feel the Fire.”
Prior said that Gibb has talked to a lot of officers and then named off three. He then mentioned that Gibb has talked to prosecutor Rob Wood and then asked her how often she spoke to him. Gibb said it was infrequent for a short period of time.
Prior then asked about an interview Gibb did with Nate Eaton from East Idaho News. Prior then asked about an interview did with Keith Morrison from “Dateline NBC.” Prior asked if there was any agreement of things that she wasn't going to talk about. Gibb couldn't recall.
Prior asks Gibb about her text messages between her and Wood in preparation for the preliminary hearing. He asked her, “Would it surprise you to learn that between May 6th of 2020 and November 4 of 2020 the two of you exchanged text messages over 340 times?” Gibb said was possible, but she really didn't know.
Prior asked if any time during her communication with Wood, did she suggest to him that she need to protect a person or an organization. Gibb said her intent only to share what she knew.
Prior shared Gibb a text message on his laptop from Gibb to Wood that said she and Keith Morrison wanted to make sure the church was “protected.”
Gibb testified that it was meant to clarify that the teachings Chad and Lori were engaged in were not consistent with the teachings of the LDS Church.
Prior then read the message out loud. “Keith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. That’s why I feel comfortable talking with him.”
Prior asked why Gibb sent that text to a prosecuting attorney who was prosecuting Chad Daybell. Gibb said she felt comfortable talking to Wood to let him know what she was up to.
Prior published two exhibits to the jury.
Prior had Gibb confirmed when it as that she met Lori. Gibb said it was the beginning of October 2018 and she was teaching a segment about health, nutrition and preparedness ideas.
Something was published to the jury that they weren't supposed to see, and they were asked to disregard.
Prior asked Gibb to clarify how often she spoke with Lori. She said that the daily communication stopped as Lori was “moving around.” Prior asked Gibb if Lori moved somewhere in January 2019. She said that Lori moved from one house to another house in Arizona and then to Hawaii around February 2019. Gibb said that when Lori moved to Hawaii, she saw Lori once.
Gibb testified that she really didn't have a relationship with Tylee. Gibb said that she was only around Tylee a few times and Tylee really wouldn't talk to her.
Prior asked how often Gibb spoke with Lori when she moved to Hawaii. Gibb said she didn't remember. Prior said that Gibb has testified that sometimes she doesn't remember things straight. He then asked her if she was suffering from that today. She said that when you have a relationship with somebody you are not going to remember every detail.
Prior then asked Gibb where Lori went after she left Hawaii at the end of March 2019. Gibb said that Lori went to stay with Alex in Arizona.
Prior asked when Lori was in Kaui, Hawaii February through March of 2019 if she was with Tylee for a portion of that. Gibb said she believed that Tylee and a friend were with her. Prior then said that JJ had been with Charles. Gibb said that she assumed.
Prior asked Gibb if she was aware that Charles had filed divorce proceedings. Gibb said she was aware. Prior asked her if she was also aware that there had been an attempt at a reconciliation between Charles and Lori. Gibb said that she believed so.
Prior asked about an “issue” with Charles, Alex and Lori at the Arizona home. Prior asked about the altercation with a bat and Alex going into his bedroom to get his gun and that he came back and there was a shooting. Gibb said yes, that is what she heard. Prior asked if Lori was there at the time of the shooting. Gibb said she was not sure, that Lori just "shared what she shared." Gibb said that she knew that at some point Lori took JJ to school.
Prior asked Gibb if she had information about Lori’s financial situation. Gibb said only what Lori shared with her. Prior asked Gibb if she was aware Lori got life insurance money after Joseph Ryan’s death. Gibb said that she was aware.
The court then took a break and when they returned Boyce said that there were some issues that need to be put on the record before the jurors came back. He wanted to clarify some exhibits that were marked Vallow/Daybell and wanted the name “Vallow” redacted in case the jurors think that was in connection to Lori's case.
Boyce said the last two defense exhibits were labeled with references that were not appropriate and that those references needed to be removed before were given to the jury.
Blake said that the inadvertently document published to the jury made reference to grand jury proceedings, preliminary hearing, Lori Vallow’s trial and inconsistent statements. She said that the state was concerned that Prior showed the item to the jurors.
Prior said his notes were unintentionally displayed because he didn’t unplug his HDMI cord. He had apparently told a bailiff not to touch his computer and doesn't see why that was an issue.
Boyce said the bailiffs were in charge of the courtroom and asked all council to respect the bailiffs and not to say any editorial comments in front of the jurors. Boyce said he had full confidence in the way the bailiffs have handled the courtroom during the trial.
After the jurors were brought back in. Prior asked Gibb to clarify how light and dark were not in her practice. She said not in the way that "they" described light and darkness. She said that she would talk about how the light was the light of Christ. Prior said asked if identifying someone as light or dark would be something that Gibb would do. She said no.
Prior asked Gibb what a portal was. She said that Lori told her that they were created by them saying a prayer and creating a place where they could communicate spiritually to each other. Prior asked Gibb if it was something that she'd practice. She said no.
Prior the asked Gibb if most of the information of zombies and various levels of light and dark was conveyed to her from Lori. Gibb said yes and then she confirmed that she didn’t talk to Chad very often and spoke to him around a handful of times.
Prior asked Gibb if she was relying on what Lori was telling her, and she didn't know if what Lori is telling her is the truth. Gibb said that she wouldn't know 100 percent. Prior said that Lori had lied to Gibb before and had been untruthful about other things.” Gibb said yes.
Prior asked Gibb if before she recorded that call that she had with Lori and Chad, had she talked to any law enforcement about recording that conversation. Gibb said never.
Prior said that when he listened to the tape that Lori's responses sounded singular. He said that Lori's comments where "I" and not "They". Gibb said that that sounded familiar.
Prior said that Gibb initially lied to police when JJ first went missing. Gibb said sure. Gibb testified that she later went and saw them personally and talked to them about everything she knew. Prior said that the purpose of her going back to the police was to clear up her initial lie. Gibb said no. She said she felt an obligation was to share with them everything she knew with them. Gibb said it was a difficult moment for her, and that’s what she did. Prior asked if being in court was difficult for her. She says of course. Prior said Gibb was having some struggles because she knows she has information about JJ Vallow and what happened to him. Gibb says to the best of her knowledge, she has shared what she knows.
Gibb testified that wasn't 100 percent sure on how often she had seen Chad when she was at Lori's the weekend when she was in Rexburg. Gibb said that she either him the night she arrived or the next evening.
Prior said on the recording, Gibb spoke with Lori about the fact she was having a relationship with a married man, and she was a married woman. Gibb said that was correct and explained that she was referencing a Book of Mormon king who had that type of behavior. Prior asked if David was still married when Gibb began dating him. Gibb said that David was in the process of divorce.
Prior asked Gibb what Firm Foundation was that Gibb had gone to the Saturday the weekend she was at Lori's in Rexburg. She said a few people got together to talk about "evidences of Book of Mormon and some science". She testified that it was an all-day event. Prior said that on Sunday everyone went to church. Gibb said that she didn't remember anyone going to church. Gibb did recall that she went with David and Chad to look at some property in the afternoon. She said that a realtor was there, and couple drove by and spoke to the group. She said that Lori wasn't there, and she assumed Lori was home with JJ.
On Sunday evening, David, Gibb and Lori started recording a podcast around 8-9 p.m. and finished around midnight. She said that Chad was not there at the time.
Gibb confirmed that during the podcast, she observed Alex carrying JJ with his head on his shoulders upstairs. She said she did not notice where they put JJ, but she was in his room with David. She said that JJ wasn't in Tylee's room either. JJ and Tylee's room were close, and Lori’s was down the hallway.
Prior asked if after Gibb went to bed, if she assumed Lori went to bed and decided to lay down with JJ. Gibb said yes. Gibb confirmed she didn't know where JJ was that night.
Prior asked about the nightmare/vision David had. Gibb said it was a “bad experience,” and David was very alarmed and upset by it. Gibb testified that she tried to open Lori's bedroom door, but it was locked, so she went back to sleep. She said she woke up around 7 the following morning. and left the house around 9:30 a.m. Prior asked Gibb if she asked to see JJ before she left. Gibb said it’s possible she couldn't recall.
Prior said that in her testimony with the prosecutors, Gibb was very clear in prosecutors and had no memory loss about zombies and dark and light. Gibb said yes.
