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On the second day of Lori's trial, firefighter Scott Cowden faced questioning from both Lori and prosecutor Treena Kay about CPR procedures, potential harm, Charles' injuries, and logistical details, concluding with juror questions and his dismissal. Darkmatter: Day Two in "Doomsday Mom" Lori Daybell's Trial 2025: Fire Fighter Scott Cowden Is Still on The Stand
Kent Keller, a retired captain from the Chandler Fire Department with 32 years of service, testified about his responsibilities and experiences. He was responsible for scene safety and ensuring his crew could assist the injured. Keller’s four-person crew had distinct roles: one member charted and focused on the big picture, while the other three assisted directly with the patient. Their priority was to assess if treatment was necessary and provide it, all while minimizing disruption to the scene.
Keller described responding to a home on July 11, 2019, where he worked on a patient named Charles. He explained how "good" CPR is vital to get blood pumping effectively. The house was empty, giving Keller's crew a clear path to Charles. Keller noted there was very little in the room except Charles, a baseball bat, and a ball cap. Once the crew began assessing Charles, Keller noticed a spent bullet round on the floor, though he didn’t see it initially. At the time, at least one officer was clearing the house. Charles was lying on his back, with his head toward the door the crew entered and his arms at his sides. He had a gunshot wound to the center of his chest, a hole in his shirt, and a small amount of blood pooling around his collarbone. Keller remarked that Charles appeared fit and noted that if adequate CPR had been performed, he would have expected more blood on and under Charles. “I didn’t see any blood when we first got there,” Keller said.
Keller explained that firefighters would remove a patient’s shirt to check for exit wounds and gunshot injuries, ensuring nothing was missed. Charles had no pulse and was not breathing. Keller questioned the need for CPR in such cases, noting that it’s unclear how long the patient had been without a pulse or breath. He added that firefighters would have cut Charles’ shirt, checked for gunshot wounds, and performed compressions. When Charles’ body was rolled, Keller observed lividity and skin modeling. He explained that modeling is a patchy skin condition caused by insufficient oxygen, possibly due to the heart not beating. Lividity, the pooling of blood, takes longer to develop as blood drains to the lowest part of the body.
Keller further explained that patient evaluation, including exposing the patient, starting CPR, and other assessments, happens simultaneously. The heart monitor showed no electrical rhythm, and Charles’ pupils were fixed, indicating no reaction. Firefighters increased the amount of blood under Charles during CPR but observed no active bleeding, signifying no heartbeat. Keller explained that he, along with the crew, decides when to end life-saving measures. In this case, Scott Cowden also agreed to stop, and they ceased efforts. Defibrillator pads were left on Charles’ body after life-saving measures ended.
Keller mentioned that he informed a man outside, who was speaking with police officers, about the situation. He noted that the person outside did not appear injured, but if he had been, Keller would have offered medical assistance. Treena asked if there was a woman with a young woman at the scene and if Keller could see them in the courtroom. Keller confirmed that he saw the adult, identifying Lori at the defense table. He also overheard someone mentioning not being invited to a pool party due to the commotion at the house. Keller stated his belief that Charles was already dead before the crew entered the house and found it highly unlikely that anyone had performed CPR on Charles prior to their arrival. Treena had no further questions, and Lori’s questioning followed.
Lori asked Keller if he was first on the scene, and he clarified that while police arrived first, he was the first firefighter there. Lori inquired about staging, which Keller described as a safety protocol where firefighters wait in a secure location near the scene until it is deemed safe to enter. She asked if instruments are used to determine body temperature, and Keller responded that they are not, adding that such instruments wouldn’t aid him as he hasn’t been trained to use them. Lori questioned Keller about skin modeling and lividity. Keller described skin modeling as a gradual process but could not specify whether Charles was in early or late phases. He admitted he didn’t know how long it had been in effect or if modeling could occur within minutes. Regarding lividity, Keller noted that it was present on Charles’ back and suggested it begins immediately after the heart stops. When asked if medication could affect lividity, Keller said he couldn’t provide an answer.
Lori also asked Keller about the radio process, including who communicates on the radio, such as dispatchers. Keller stated that he was unaware Alex had been instructed by the 911 operator to go outside, noting that he didn’t know who Alex was or how he was involved in the scene. When asked if he could confirm CPR had not been performed on Charles, Keller acknowledged, “I do not know for a fact.” With that, Lori concluded her questioning.
In Treena’s re-direct questioning, she asked Keller what he observes first when the heart stops—modeling or lividity. Keller explained that modeling appears first, while lividity develops much later. Treena asked if Keller had treated people just a few minutes after their heart stopped and observed modeling or lividity in those cases; Keller said no. Treena then inquired about additional signs indicating CPR had been given. Keller stated that witness CPR would be the most reliable evidence, but other signs include an indentation in the chest, a cracked sternum from the rib cage, or increased bleeding in cases of trauma. Keller explained that mechanical compressions would spread blood, yet he observed no blood other than the pooling below Charles’ body. Ultimately, Keller concluded it was his opinion that CPR had not been performed on Charles prior to the firefighters’ arrival.
Treena followed up with questions about using drugs to restart a heart, noting the difference between trauma cases and heart attacks. Keller clarified that ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support) protocols apply. Treena also asked about contacting physicians, and Keller explained that physicians are sometimes patched in—not during a code—but to discuss prior and upcoming treatments as the patient is transported to the hospital. Keller emphasized that paramedics ultimately have the authority to end life-saving measures. No further questions were asked.
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