Chad Daybell Trial- Melanie Gibb Finished Her Testimony and Retired FBI Agent Doug Hart Took The Stand.

 

Lori Daybell's former friend, Melanie Gibb, continued to be cross-examined by defense attorney John Prior. 

Prior asked Gibb if she provided a hair sample to law enforcement. She said she did not. He asked if she ever was required or turned over her phone to police. She said no. He asked if she ever was asked or turned over emails or social media accounts to law enforcement. She said no. Gibb confirmed that she did provide a DNA sample to police in 2021.

Prior asked Gibb if she was familiar with the group Seven Gatherers. She said she was not. Prior asked Gibb if Chad and Lori ever talked about a plan of spending their lives together. Gibb said yes, within a month or two of them meeting, they started talking about being head of the 144,000.

Gibb testified that she was present a few times when Chad openly discussed his premonitions about Tammy not living long and that he said this before he met Lori. Prior refers to a text message Gibb sent Rob Wood that said Chad told people his wife was going to die young.

Gibb confirmed that Chad never told her he intended to do harm to Tammy, JJ or Tylee.

Prior said that he wanted to talk to Gibb about the call she received from Chad about him not wanting her to call the police. Prior than asked Gibb to confirm that in 2019 she was at Lori's home in September from the 19th to the 23rd. She agreed. Prior asked her if that was the last time she saw JJ. Gibb said correct. Prior asked her if she subsequently learned that JJ was murdered around that time. She said yes.

Prior asked Gibb if Chad called around Thanksgiving of 2019 and told her not to talk to the police. Gibb said yes.

Prior then asked Gibb if Lori called her before the Nov. 23, 2019, warning her that Chad was going to call. Gibb said no that Chad called on the 23rd and said Lori was going to get a hold of her. Prior asked her that on Nov. 25, 2019, Chad Daybell contacted her and specifically asked her where JJ was. Gibb said no.

Prior asked Gibbs if Lori called her after she talked to Chad. Gibb said yes that Lori told her the police had come asking for JJ and that she told them that Gibb had JJ and that she needed to go to the movie "Frozen" and take pictures.

Prior told Gibb that she was denying the fact Chad called her seeking out information on JJ. Gibb says yes.

Prior asked about the police calling Gibb and inquiring about JJ. Gibb told them she had him, even though she didn’t. Prior said after that point, she decided to tell police she didn’t have JJ because she was having an emotional issue how to deal with it. Gibb said correct. She said it took a couple of weeks to go to the police and tell them the truth.

Prior asked if Gibb went and recorded the conversation with Lori with talking with police. She said correct. Prior asked her if the recording took place on December 8th. Gibb said yes. Prior asked Gibb if she recalled having a call with Ray Hermosillo. She said yes. Prior told Gibb he thought she didn't talk to police before making the call. Gibb said she spoke with police but wasn't sure of the date. Prior said that she made two calls to Rexburg Police Det. Ray Hermosillo on Dec. 6 and 7. Gibb said she couldn't recall the dates.

Prior said during the call, the majority of the conversation was between Gibb and Lori. Gibb said yes. Prior said that the only time Chad got on the phone call was to talk about his premonition about Tammy. Gibb agreed Chad was not a significant portion of the call.

Prior said that during the phone call Lori made a comment "You more than anyone else knows the truth." Gibb said yes. Prior asked if that was a way to hide that fact that Gibb and Lori knew what happened to JJ. Gibb said no. Prior then asked Gibb if Lori was being vague on the phone call because Chad was there, and Lori didn’t want Chad to know that she was going to talk about the murder of JJ Vallow. Gibb said she didn't what her agenda was.

Prior asked about Chad, Lori and Gibb using different names. He said that the names James and Elena had come up. Gibb said yes. Prior asked Gibb if she was aware that those names were from a book Chad was writing about his relationship with Lori. Gibb said yes.

Prior said Gibb's nickname was Phoebe. Gibb said she occasionally went by that name.

Prior showed an email sent from Gibb to Lori where she said she would teach people about dark portals. There was some confusion over who sent the email to whom. The email was from July 25, 2019. Prior said Gibb was getting ready to go teach at a mountain retreat. Gibb said she did remember anything like that. Gibb said that the text was from Lori to Gibb. Prior said the message was from her to Lori. Gibb said that she never taught in any camp about dark portals.

Prior asked Gibb if she had discussions with people about light and dark. She said she did but only to the inner circle and she didn’t go around teaching. Prior showed Gibb a message where she apparently spoke about a man named Mike James and a woman named Nancy being super dark. Gibb didn't recall the message and didn't recall talking to people outside of the inner circle about light and dark.

Prior asked about castings. Gibb agreed that she had never had anything to do with castings until she met Lori. She also agreed that physical violence as never part of casting. Prior asked if death was ever in the equation for castings. Gibb said that eventually they said that the person would pass on if the evil spirit left. Prior asked if that teaching was consistent with the LDS faith. Gibb said no.

Prior asked Gibb if Lori had paid for her flight Hawaii in 2019 when she visited Lori. Gibb said she didn't think so, but she couldn't recall. Gibb confirmed that Tylee was not there at that time. Prior asked if there were occasions Lori paid for people’s flights. Gibb said she didn't know.

Prior asked Gibb if she ever had asked Lori if she had paid for Chad's flight to speak in Arizona. Gibb said that didn't sound familiar.

Prior asked Gibb if she arrived in Rexburg on the 19th of September 2019. She said yes and confirmed that Lori picked her up at the airport. He asked if Alex was there. She said not in the car. 

Prior said that Gibb told law enforcement in a previous interview that she went with Lori to a restaurant right after she arrived in Idaho Falls. Gibb said that was right. Prior said that the restaurant's name was Johnny Carino’s. Gibb said that she just remembered going to an Italian restaurant. Prior asked Gibb if she recalled that Lori had hired a babysitter that day.  She said that she thought so. Gibb testified that she believed that Alex met them at the restaurant.  

Prior asked Gibb if she recalled her going with Lori after the restaurant to Walmart. Gibb said she couldn't recall.

Gibb didn't recall seeing Chad that day, she said just remembered she was with Lori. 

Prior asks Gibb if she remembered going to Gravity Factory, a jump house, on Friday. Gibb said she wasn't sure if it was Friday or not. She also said she wasn't sure of the time, only that it was light outside. Gibb said that they went to the jump house for JJ. Gibb said that they were there around two hours. She said that Alex came and went from the jump house. Then they went out for pizza. Prior said Gibb had to go back to Lori’s townhouse to get ready to pick up David. Gibb said that wasn't correct, David drove in. Gibb testified that that night Alex, Lori, Gibb, David, JJ and Chad were hanging out at Lori’s house. Alex played Guitar Hero.

Gibb confirmed that she went to a Firm Foundation conference. Prior asked if she remembered texting Wood that she was at the Firm Foundation for about ten hours taking pictures. Gibb said she couldn't recall, but it was possible. Gibb didn't recall seeing Chad that night.

Prior asked Gibb if she and David slept in on Sunday. Gibb says no, she doesn’t sleep in. Gibb testified that Lori colored and cut her hair, which took a few hours. Prior asked if they went out for lunch. Gibb said she didn't remember the lunch arrangements. Gibb said they then went to see a field and may have been with David. She said that they then went to meet up with Chad to see a piece of property.

After they saw the parcels of lands, Gibb said she went back to Lori’s townhouse. She said they recorded their podcast that night, and Chad was not there. She said they finished recording around midnight.

Gibb said that she left with David on Monday around 9:30 a.m. to drive to Pocatello to visit David’s son. Prior had no further questions. 

Blake conducted the redirect. She asked Gibb if Chad ever indicated that he had visions. Gibb said yes, he shared them publicly. 

Blake asked Gibb how did Chad and Lori use the term "Vibrations". Gibb said Chad and Lori used the term in a way to express their knowledge about translation. Gibb said they said that he higher the vibration number, the closer the body would be to a translated state and that when you are translated, your body is changed in a way, so you don’t have to eat or drink, and you are stronger and more powerful.

Blake asked if it would be fair to say that some people may have a glow about them. Gibb said yes. Blake asked if that was different than the light and dark Chad and Lori taught. Gibb said that she thought so.

Blake asked Gibb about her communication with prosecutors and if any of that communication altered her version of events. Gibb said no. Blake asked Gibb if she ever observed Chad and Lori on the phone together. Gibb said yes when she was with Lori, she was able to overhear some of the conversations. Gibb said that Lori would tell her some of the things that Chad told her.

Blake asked Gibb who labeled people dark or zombie. Gibb said Chad. Blake asked that once someone was labeled dark or zombies, what would happen to their bodies. Gibb said if the casting was successful, the body would naturally die. Gibb said JJ, Tammy, Charles and Tylee were all labeled dark or zombie.

Blake asked about the phone call and the part where Chad told Gibb she could be in danger. Blake asked Gibb if law enforcement asked her to record the call. She said no. Blake asked Gibb if Chad ever jumped in to correct Lori on the call. Gibb didn't recall that. Gibb confirmed that Lori told her that JJ was ok.

Blake followed up by asking about the call Gibb received from Chad around Thanksgiving. Gibb confirmed that he had asked her not to pick up the phone when the police called. Gibb said she asked Chad if JJ was with Kay. Chad had told her no. Gibb testified that she didn’t know JJ had been reported missing when Chad told her not to talk to the police. Blake had no further questions. 

Prior had some follow- questions. He asked Gibb about castings and if the purpose was to rid the body of evil spirits. She said yes. Prior had nothing further.

The court took a morning recess, but before they did Boyce said something needed to be addressed without the presence of the jurors. 

Blake said Prior had been allowed to do a recross on all witnesses. She objected to him being able to recross everyone and asked that he be limited to only if a new issue arises. Prior said that it was not up to the prosecutor to decide when he could recross, it was up to the judge. He also accidently called Blake "Ms. Gibb".

Boyce said there are limitations on what should be allowed in redirect. He said he had been liberal in allowing the scope to be broad because there was an agreement between the state and defense in being efficient in moving through witnesses, so they didn't have to be called twice. Boyce said he will keep an eye on the topics and take the objection under advisement.

The next witness called was retired FBI Agent Doug Hart. Hart is currently the chief deputy for the Canyon County Sheriff’s Office. He has been employed with them since September 2022. Prior he was a special agent for the FBI for 27 years. Working for the FBI his first assignment was in Hawaii where he spent 5 and a half years on the Organized Crime Drug Squad. His next assignment was in Idaho where he spent 7 years working violent crimes and person crimes on the NESP Indian reservation. His third assignment was to be the supervisor of the Treasure Valley Metro Violent Crime Task Force. His last 7 years in the FBI he was supervisor for the southern 34 counties in Idaho for all criminal programs, that was how he became involved in the investigation.

Hart testified that the case was brought to the FBI’s attention towards the end of Nov. 2019. Since the case had to do with missing children, that is something the FBI are experts in.

He said that when the FBI became involved it became a joint investigation with the Rexburg and Freemont police as well as the state of Idaho's Attorney General's office, Social Security and a few other entities.

Hart was the FBI supervisor in the case. He reviewed and approved things that went into the case file and also carried several investigative assignments in the case. He looked into two iCloud accounts of Lori Vallow, lori4style and lollytime. Lollytime started July 1, 2019, but lori4style was an older account and started in 2011.

Hart said that the amount of data on the iCloud accounts was voluminous. He said that the FBI used a program called Cellebrite to search through the accounts and organized it. Hart created a summary exhibit that showed what was discovered. Blake admitted the exhibit into evidence.

Hart testified that Chad and Lori met on Oct. 26, 2018. He said there are communications in the exhibit that reference the time frame of when the couple met.

Blake asked Hart if going through those communications, did he discover when the last know sighting was of Tylee. He said yes that she was last seen on September 8th, 2019. Blake then asked him when the last known sighting of JJ was. He said that it was September 22nd, 2019. She then asked Hart when the date was that Tammy was declared dead. He said on October 19th, 2019. Blake then asked him if he learned when Chad and Lori were married. He said that it was November 5th of 2019.

Blake showed the first slide. It was a text messages between Lori and Audrey Barattiero. January 23rd, 2019. 

Lori- “Hi Audrey, this is Lori. I would like to talk to you sometime. Text me or call me. I’m excited to be able to talk to you about what we both know :-)”

Audrey- “Hi Lori. Guess you talked to Chad. Haha. Did he tell you I have a crazy work schedule? I might be able to talk tonight. I’ll have to play it by ear but I wouldn’t know until about 9:30 p.m. or after. The same for tomorrow.” 

Lori- “He did. That’s ok. Just let me know when you’re available. No pressure. I just think it’s fun to talk to someone who knows what’s really going on :)” 

Audrey- “So what times usually work for you? I usually talk to him on my lunch breaks on Mondays or Tuesday. Sunday afternoons I can talk.”

Hart said that Audrey Barattiero was a friend and associate of Chad who was introduced by Chad to Lori. Hart said that it struck when Lori was excited to talk to Audrey about “what they both know”. He said from that text and the one where Audrey said, "Guess you talked to Chad," that they all know something.

The next messages were sent between 9:18-9:30 p.m. on July 13, 2019.  

Melani P. (Loris' niece) to Lori- “Brandon (Melani’s ex-husband) is making me promise to not have your or AI around my house or kids. He’s talked to a lawyer. And he said his lawyer said that due to the circumstances he can do that. What do I do.” 

Melani P. to Lori-"He brought Aly Bloomer’s husband here who is a cop.”

Chad to Lori- “He can’t do that, just like he can’t get a restraining order against you. The mediator would make that clear. You and All did have any charges against you.” 

Chad to Lori- “I will check ALL Bloomer and husband.”

Hart said that during his investigation he discovered that Chad assigned people dark or light and would give them a score. Hart said that Lori and others would seek Chad’s visions in relation to whether people were dark or light. Hart said that Chad was going to check what Aly Blommer and her husband scores were.

Hart said that in the first text message from Melani to Lori , Al was referring to Alex.

Lori to Chad- “Good idea.” 

Chad to Lori- “Aly Bloomer is 4.1 dark. Her cop husband is 3 dark. I suppose Brandon doesn’t know yet about the discovered Charles texts?” 

Lori to Chad- “Not yet but I’m sure he knows it’s not good. They have had a lot of conflict. Mel says he looks scared.” 

Lori to Melani P.- “Aly Bloomer’s husband 3 (dark emoji).” 

Chad to Lori- “His emotions are 75 percent panic, 25 percent fear. Yeah, he’s a little worried.”

Hart said that the text display how Lori would ask Chad's advice or visions and then pass that information along to others.

Next slide. 

Lori to Chad- “Can you clear Mel’s new house? She is sleeping there tonight. And check it for recording devices?” 

Chad to Lori- “Glad we are in sync! I will clear the house and check it. Was he surprised when she returned home early?” 

Chad to Lori- “I’m working on the house, but having to break down some dark entities Brandon created. I detect three listening devices.”

Lori to Melani P.- “From your dad: I’m working on the house, but having to break down some dark entries Brandon created. I detect three listening devices.”

Hart said the individuals within the group look to Chad as the supposed visionary who will give them this type of information and when the requests were made, Chad responded.

Next slide from July 13 at 11:06 p.m. 

Chad to Lori- “Concerning the two weeks, BYU-Idaho’s graduation is July 23rd. Adam is getting his bachelors and Leah and Joe are getting their associates. They are all walking in the same commencement ceremony. I feel she will be gone by then, but I will still have that hoopla to deal with, because a lot of my and Adam’s family are coming and will stay for July 24th. So I believe that’s why the Lord hinted I might not get to be with you until that is over. Please ask about that.”

Hart testified that the messages were sent two days after Charles Vallow was shot and killed.

Blake asked Hart who Adam was. He said that Adam was Chad's son-in-law, Leah was Chad's daughter and Joe was another son-in-law.

Blake asked Hart who he believed the “she” was referring to. Hart said Tammy Daybell.

July 14 at 7:42 a.m., Chad to Lori- “Good morning my most beautiful Lili. (Thanks for joining me in the shower this morning. Wow!) Getting ready to leave for my meetings. Does noon your time look like a time we could talk? I love you so immensely that the whole universe knows it, and very soon the people on this little blue globe will know it too.” 

8:19 a.m., Lori to Chad- “Morning sunshine. Sure. Call me if you get a chance.” 

Hart said Lori was in Arizona, and Chad was in Idaho at the time of the message of them being in the shower. Hart said that the second message showed that Lori and Chad's relationship was secret, but Chad was going to announce it in the future.

Chad text Lori the next day. “I love you so much! You are my greatest desire and my best friend. Now on with the story.” 

Chad then text Lori portions of the story he wrote. "They would both attend the same event in mid-November, and it seemed like that day would never arrive. Each day they opened their hearts to each other a little more. James knew he could trust her with the mysteries of the universe that had been revealed to him. He knew they had been married before, and they had been close friends with the Savior when he lives in Jerusalem. James had served in an important position in the Lord’s church, and Elena had been his beloved spouse and best friend. That relationship was now meant to continue in this lifetime.”

Hart said that what Chad wrote was autobiographical and were events from 2018.

Next slide: Chad to Lori- “As James and Elena talked on the phone, he tried to delicately describe their connection to each other, and he was delighted that she believed him. He also shared that they had been married other times on a previous world, and she accepted that information as well. James was overjoyed to have these memories restored to him, because he truly loved her with all of his heart. He knew they were meant to be married again and complete important missions together before the Second Coming.”

Chad to Lori- “He also became aware that his spirit would visit her at night, and they would wrap around each other in a sensual embrace. Kissing her was so wonderful and real, and he knew that the next time they saw each other, he needed to kiss her. He wouldn’t be able to resist holding her. He was absolutely in love with her in every way.”

The next slide showed messages sent the evening of July 14, 2019. Chad to Lori- “Hanging in there, but really missing you too! Please find out the name of Mel’s campout in Utah. I have no intention of going, but I feel it is our avenue to get together, whether she is still here or not.” 

Lori- “Zion’s family camp. Mel speaks Wed night and Dave speaks Thursday night. Shelly M is their main speaker…eye roll.” 

Chad- “My trip to speak at the camp July 24-26 has been approved and is now on the calendar.”

Hart said that the “she” in the message referred to Tammy. He said he believed the camp was an excuse for Chad and Lori to meet up in person.

July 14, Chad to Lori- “I need so badly to just gently kiss you…for hours.” 

Chad- “It would likely lead to other activities.” 

Lori- “Likely or Luckily?” 

Chad- “It would LUCKILY lead to nakedness.” 

Hart said that there was a lot of sexting messages in iCloud, and this was just one example.

July 15th, Chad to Lori- “I know you won’t get this for another hour or so, but my love for you is overflowing right now. I just want to hold you endlessly. You are my wonderful best friend I can’t live without!” 

Lori- “And yet…you are. So sad (emojis) missing you! Just landed! Gotta get to work!!”

Hart said that Lori would manipulate Chad. 

The next slide: July 18, Lori to Chad- “I just got the letter from the insurance company saying that I am not the beneficiary. It’s a spear thru my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon?? or probably Kay?? He left nothing for jj!!” 

Chad- “Wow. That’s terrible. There is no way to find out?”  

Lori- "I might be able to see when i get his computer on Sunday. I could check the emails send to the insurance company. I will show changed of beneficiary. He must have done it recently."

Chad- "It seemed like you would have had to agree to the change. Maybe your name was forged? You should have a good paper trail to prove it."

Chad- "I love you. This is terrible but it is probably another step in bringing down the Gadiantons, especially Brandon."

Lori- "Nope. He can change it any time he wants. He's the agent and anyone can change the beneficiary at any time with their own signature. I'm thinking it must be Kay."

Chad- "Hmm. It would be interesting if he got it changed after he had two bullets in his chest."

Blake asked Hart what Gadiantons meant. “The Gadiantons were a group of people from the Book of Mormon – robbers and thieves.” When the phrase is used, it identifies someone as being a bad person.”

Blake asked Hart if he was aware of the attempted shooting of Brandon. Hart confirmed and said that the shooter narrowly missed him.

Lori responded that he (Charles) could change the life insurance at any time. Chad told Lori that he thought Kay was the beneficiary, and she was probably “freaking out” after Lori got “those computers.” Chad said he was going to shower and give Lori a blessing. 

Lori texted Chad later that day at 12:19 p.m. "So, I talked to the insurance company. He changed it in March, so it was probably Ned before we got rid of him. They can't tell me to who of course, but it's done. I will still get the four thousand a month from SS."

July 21, 2019, Lori to Chad- “Found it. Ned gave all of it to Rhonda.” 

Chad- “Glad you found that out.” 

Lori- “It fits. Now she will try to take him. Thx for working on her. Work on me too. Reading all this stuff makes me sick.”

Chad- “We will work hard on Rhonda when we are together. I will get her numbers as low as I can by Wednesday.” 

Lori- “Good. Let’s work on it hard.” 

Hart said that Rhonda was the name that Chad gave the dark spirit that inhabited Kay Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother.

Blake asked Hart if he never saw any signs of grief or sorrow from Lori or Chad. Hart said "None."

Next slide: July 21st at 8:17pm, Chad to Lori- “James and Elena had agreed to visit the temple the following morning. She returned to the hotel room, and after additional romance on the couch, they calmed their nerves enough to give each other a blessing. As James placed his hands on her head, he connected with Elena’s true eternal self. He knew hew as in the presence of an exalted goddess who had returned to earth to perform a special mission. This mission included being with him, and they would progress together as translated beings. The full plan wasn’t yet completely clear to him, but the immense power radiating from her confirmed his belief that she was among the greatest women in the universe.”

Chad- “They embraced following the blessing, and the emotions they felt were a mixture of eternal bless and telestial desire. The sexual chemistry was undeniable, but the spiritual unity was a glorious bonus for them both. They had only known each other for three weeks, but two lonely, misunderstood souls had finally found their best friend that they could trust and confide in.” Lori responds: “She loves it.”

Chad- “They arrived at the temple, and they both felt they should do sealings together. They were soon seated in a sealing room, facing each other. Elena looked so stunning as she smiled at him. She seemed calm, while he felt quite nervous. Their opportunity soon came to kneel across the altar from each other, and as the sealer pronounced those sacred words, James and Elena knew that they were now sealed as husband and wife for eternity. As the earthly sealing was taking place, a similar scene involving their spirits was happening on a higher plane, where they kissed and unified their souls. They knew they had just begun a new journey together that was eternal and never-ending.”

Hart said Chad and Lori went to the Gilbert, Arizona, temple together while they were both married to other people.

July 21, Lori to Chad- “It’s making me so happy to read about our life that I am finally going to dance. Missing you and loving you from afar!!” 

Lori- “It was great. I feel free again. I love you more than ever and can’t wait to. be with you forever. I’m begging father and mother. That’s my job tonight!” 

Chad- “I will be right beside you, begging just as much. I need you desperately!!!” All of these messages have multiple lip, fire and/or heart emojis.

Hart said that Chad and Lori had a clear plan to be with each other together and forever and that they were both begging God for that to happen. He testified that Tammy was alive when these messages were exchanged. Blake asked Hart if there was ever any indication of Chad planning to get divorced or separated. Hart said no.

July 22, Chad to Lori- “Love you. going with Garth in an hour to see ‘The Other Side of Heaven 2.’ Missing you desperately, but so excited to be with you." 

Lori- “I love you. U will enjoy the scenery…looks like Kauai a lot!”

Lori- “Hopefully we will be there some day soon together!”

Chad- “That is the plan! And my greatest desire.” 

Chad- “Hi darling, Back from the movie. We enjoyed it! I look forward to being on a tropical island with you!”

July 26th, Chad to Lori- “I’m home. Missing you immensely and feeling very tired, but I had a splendid time with you, my love! I will text again soon.” 

Chad at 8:13 p.m.- "I’m a grown-up version of Harry Potter, who has to live with the Dudley's in his little space under the stairs. Every few weeks I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my Goddess lover, but then I have to return to my place under the stairs, feeling trapped. But I sense permanent freedom is coming!"

July 28, Lori to Chad- “R u mad? Sad? What?” Chad to Lori, “I’m doing okay. Just no privacy here to hardly text, and I’m missing you immensely. I feel good about the trip.” 

Lori- “I need a distraction while I’m waiting for you! I love you!”

Chad- “Absolutely. I think you’ll have a fun time!” 

Hart said that Lori was going to take a trip with Alex and Melani P to Southern California.

Darkmatter: Chad Daybell Trial- FBI Forensic Accountant Michael Douglass Finished His Testimony and Former Friend Melanie Gibb took the stand. (darkmatter69.blogspot.com)

Amber Alert: Sebastion Rogers

Description: Last seen wearing a black sweatshirt, black sweatpants and glasses.

An AMBER Alert has been issued on behalf of the Sumner County Sheriff's Office for Sebastian Wayne Drake Rogers. 

Sebastian is a 15-year-old white male, 5'5" tall, 120lbs., with brown hair and brown eyes. Sebastian was last seen on February 26, 2024, in the area of Stafford Court in Hendersonville, TN. Sebastian was last seen wearing a black sweatshirt, black sweatpants, and glasses. Sebastian has a medical condition that may impair his ability to return safely without assistance.

If you have seen Sebastian or have information regarding his whereabouts, please contact the Sumner County Emergency Communications Center at 615-451-3838 or the TBI at 1-800-TBI-FIND. Have you seen this child? AMBER Alert: Sebastian Wayne Drake Rogers (missingkids.org)

Chad Daybell Trial- Mountain Home Attorney Terry Ratliff Got Sanctioned!

 

Attorney Terry Ratliff filed pleading purporting to be Chad's attorney shortly before midnight on Friday, March 29th, 2024. 

Judge Boyce reminded the court that this case was capital murder case, and it is incredibly serious.

Boyce said that said his staff attorney was notified on March 31, Easter Sunday, that the motion was had been filed. He said that was the day before they started the Voir dire.  Boyce said the staff attorney contacted the court and said that an emergency was happening with the case and that emergency was a motion to continue the trial. Boyce said that this created a tremendous amount of quick response required by the court, staff, clerks. prosecutors and the defense.

Boyce said that pleading was entitled "Motion to intervene and to continue trial in these proceedings." Boyce said it was filed by Mr. Ratliff on his official office letterhead and signed by Mr. Ratliff as attorney for the defendant. Boyce said that “motion,” “continue,” “proceedings” were misspelled. 

Boyce said, "When I reviewed this, I was angry then and I think I’m angrier now about what you did.” 

Boyce said that Ratliff must explain how his pleading complied with rule 11, which governs attorneys and the representations they make.

Boyce said he had questions for Ratliff. He said that while he appreciated the time and research Ratliff had put into the case, Ratliff is not the defendant, state, prosecutor or the defense attorney. Boyce said that Ratliff was an attorney that filed something asking him to stop the trial with no legal standing to do that. He said that he wanted to give Ratliff an opportunity to explain.

Ratliff's attorney, Bartlett, claimed that he was told by Boyce’s clerk two days ago that he could represent his client. Bartlet said that Boyce was in contempt. Boyce said that he was not in contempt. Boyce said Barlett could not argue the motion as his client, an attorney, filed the motion. Boyce said he had questions for Ratliff, not his attorney. Boyce said that he is the judge. He said that with all due respect to Barlett, he appreciated the fact that he wanted to represent his client. Boyce said that Barlett talked to his client before, and he can talk to him after, but the questions he has on rule 11 related directly to the pleading that Ratliff filed as a licensed attorney in the case. Boyce said that he has the right to ask Ratliff about the pleading that he filed. Boyce told Barlett that he could take a moment to consult with him, but he wasn't going to be allowed to argue the merits. Bartlett said he would consult with Ratliff. 

Ratliff said he was willing to answer Boyce’s questions. Boyce said that Ratliff filed the wrong case number. Boyce asked why he entitled himself as attorney for the defendant three different places. Ratliff said that was an error because it was in his template. Boyce asked who he was the attorney for. Ratliff said that it should have been signed “citizen.” 

Ratliff said he was looking for immediate relief of concerns he had about the case. Boyce asked why he was doing it at almost midnight on a Friday night. Boyce said that according to Ratliff's content he has known about this for a long time. Ratliff said that was correct. Boyce asked him why he was doing it then. Ratliff said he wanted to do something to slow it down. Boyce asked, "Trial is scheduled for how many years and you wanted to slow it down the day before it started?"

Ratliff said he also received calls from Prior asking for help. Boyce asked if he was ever retained by Prior or had made a plea for the defendant. Ratliff said no.

Ratliff confirmed that he filed the pleading without permission of the defendant or his counsel.

Boyce said that Ratliff called himself an intervener. Boyce asked on what basis he had to intervene. Ratliff said he stated in the brief why he wanted to intervene. Boyce asked if Ratliff was intervening as a citizen at large not attorney Ratliff. Ratliff answered that it is semantics. Boyce chuckled and said "Oh Boy, let me stop you right there. It's absolutely not." He said that an attorney filing something with their bar number is completely different then a citizen filing something to the court.

Boyce said that Ratliff's intent to intervene whether it was as a citizen or as an attorney there is a law that prevents intervention in a criminal case by a third party. Boyce then asked what right Ratliff has to intervene as an attorney or a citizen. Ratliff said according to Idaho law, he can intervene. Boyce asked Ratliff what he was going to do in the case if he intervened. Ratliff said that he had hoped he would have had a hearing in front of Boyce before the trial started.

Ratliff explained that he was nervous, and it was late at night when he filed his motion and that his why he had all the typos and mistakes.

Boyce said this was a frivolous filing that cost time, effort and real loss for the attorneys and the court. Boyce said he was going to ask defense and prosecution to itemize time spent on this pleading and Ratliff would pay attorney's fees for both sides. He also said that the court would also itemize billing time. Boyce said that he was handing down a sanction that Ratliff pay the fees.

Bartlett asked Boyce to address their written filing. Boyce said he can ask but he may not get them. Bartlett asked to talk to the judge and Boyce said, “I’m done with this issue, and I’m done wasting time on this issue.

Chad Daybell Trial- FBI Forensic Accountant Michael Douglass Finished His Testimony and Former Friend Melanie Gibb took the stand.

 

Douglass testified that he reviewed Venmo records in relation to Tylee and Lori. Wood then admitted a timeline of Venmo activity that showed Tylee’s account and two accounts that belonged to Lori.

Douglass says the only funding source for Tylee’s Venmo account was her JP Morgan Chase account until Sept. 2019.

• Jan. 7 to Aug. 7- Tylee's primary Venmo activity was to Colby Ryan, her older brother, and Kelsee Benson, his girlfriend. Tylee also sent money on Venmo one time to two of her friends. Tylee Venmod Colby four times during this seven-month period for a total of $170. 
• Sept. 1st- Tylee, JJ and Lori moved to Rexburg.
• September 9th- Tylee was killed.
• Sept. 10, 2019- The funding source changed on the account, but Venmo activity continued. Also, there were 29 payments from this date to December to Colby Ryan, totaling over $5,000.

The next exhibit was an Etsy record that showed a record of a glow-in-the-dark malachite ring was purchased on August 19th by Lori and shipped to her. The purchase was refunded, and Douglass didn't know why. Wood had no further questions. 

Prior began his cross. He asked Douglass why he showed an exhibit showing Chad bought a phone from Walmart before he met Lori. Douglass said he found it substantial because of the continued pattern of the purchase of cell phones. Prior stated that the phone was inexpensive, and Douglass agreed.

Prior said that it would be an ideal way to hide an affair with another woman from your wife. Douglass responded, “If you say so.” Prior said that he was asking. Douglass said it could be.

Prior asked if Lori and Chad ever co-mingled their money. Douglass said that there was no indication.

Prior pulled up the exhibit of Tylee’s financial timeline which started with Joe Ryan's death on April 3, 2018. Prior then asked if Chad knew Lori or Tylee, JJ or Joe at that time. Douglass said there was no indication that they knew each other.

Prior moved along the timeline to other events in 2018. He asked again if Chad knew JJ, Tylee or Lori at this time. Douglass said no. Prior pointed that out Lori receiving a life insurance policy from Joe on Oct. 28, 2018, of over $64,000.

Chad and Lori met on Oct. 26, 2018which was two days before Lori got the life insurance payment. Prior asked if Lori had anticipated the life insurance check before she met Chad. Douglass said that Lori knew about the payment before she met Chad.

Prior reviewed other events said that Chad had nothing to do with the transactions. He then asked Douglass if he was trying to imply in this particular exhibit that Chad had anything to do with Charles’. Douglass said that he built the timeline to show funding sources for Tylee.

Prior then showed an exhibit that displayed JJ’s financial timeline. He asked Douglass if Chad and Lori ever talked financial matters before she texted Chad about not getting the insurance money following Charles’s death. Douglass said he didn't have any indication of that.

Prior asked if there were any financial links between Chad and Lori leading up to Tylee’s death. Douglass said there were no accounts linking them together.

Prior asked Douglass said he found it unusual that he included the fact that Chad checked the direction of the wind on the timeline of Tylee's financial records. Douglass agreed that it was not relevant to the finances. Prior then asked why he didn’t mention the fact Chad sent a text to his wife that he burned limbs the following morning. Douglass said he didn’t discover that.

Prior asked Douglass if he was aware Lori temporary relocated to Hawaii around Feb. 1, 2019. Douglass said that there were transactions that supported she was coming and going from Arizona to Hawaii. Prior asked if she was coming and going or if she had relocated. Douglass said he could not prove she relocated.

Prior asked Douglass if he knew JJ was with his father while Lori was in Hawaii and mentions that Lori was receiving Social Security money. Douglass said at that time only Tylee was due to the death of her father.

Prior asked about Tammy’s life insurance policies and says one of them was put in place years ago. Douglass said that he wasn't surprised, and that Tammy had $300,000 in life insurance before she started working at the school. Then she started at the school, and after a year, her policy increased. Prior asked Douglass if he knew who increased the life insurance. He said that he wasn’t there.

Prior said he wanted to talk about how the malachite rings were canceled. Prior asked Douglass if he looked into the size of the wedding rings. Douglass said that the 8mm on the invoice was the width not the size. Prior the asked if Douglass was aware that Alex Cox proposed marriage to Zulema Pastenes. Douglass said he knew they got married but didn't know when. Prior had no further questions.

Wood had a few redirect questions. Wood if Douglass had seen what kind of rings Chad and Lori wore in their wedding pictures. Douglass testified that they were Malachite.

Wood talked about the direction of the wind that Chad had Googled. Douglass testified that when he came onto the case, it was a missing person's case. Douglass then testified that the text Chad had sent Tammy about burning limbs the day after his Google search. He then reminded the court that the last known sighting of Tylee was on Sept. 8, the day of the Google search.

Wood then asked about the text message between Lori and Chad concerning the $4,000 in Social Security. He asked Douglass if Chad had been aware at that time if Lori was getting at least $4,000. Douglass said yes.

Wood asked if Chad and Lori lived together at one point. Douglass responded that yes, they had in Hawaii.

Wood then talked about the burner phones and how Prior asked if they would be a good way to cover an affair. Douglass said yes. Wood then asked if it would be a good way to cover up a crime. Douglass says yes. Wood asked him in his line of work if he saw criminals buy burner phones often. Douglass said yes to that question too. Wood then said, “If someone was having an affair and the mistress’s husband dies … and then your wife dies … and you marry that woman 10 days later, and the next year there are two dead children are found on your property, are those the type of events that might lead someone to buy multi burner phones?” Douglass said it could.

Wood had no further questions.

Prior had more questions. He asked when did the financial transactions and the issues related to the finances of JJ and Tylee start. He said that from 2018 and January 2019.

Prior then asked Douglass when it was that Chad and Lori's marriage start. Douglass said that November 5th of 2019 and that they lived in Hawaii until she was arrested in January.

Prior had nothing else.

Next up to the stand was Melanie Gibb with Blake doing the questioning for the prosecution. Blake asked Gibb if she knew Chad and when did she meet him. Gibb said she met him in the summer of 2017 a get-together in a camping environment.

Blake then asked Gibb where she met Lori. She said that she was teaching in a church building in Oct. 2018 and Lori was in the audience. Lori approached her and they ended up striking up a friendship. She testified that the two kept in pretty good contact, at least at first. She said a few weeks after they met, they went to St. George, Utah, for a religious conference with around 6 other people on the same vehicle. 

Gibb testified that Chad was at the conference selling his books and he also gave a talk. Gibb said that was the first time that Lori and Chad met each other. She couldn't remember if she introduced them to each other or not. 

Gibb said that Lori and Chad had deep conversations with each other and seemed very interested and attracted to each other. Gibb testified that Lori was married to Charles at the time and that she had met him. Gibb then testified that Chad was married to Tammy at the time, but she had never met her.

Gibb testified that after the conference she traveled back with Lori. She said that Lori told her that Chad had said that Lori had lived multiple lives, and that she had been married to Moroni in a previous life. Gibb testified that Lori had talked to her about multiple lives before. Lori told Gibb that Chad gave her additional information at the conference, that they had been married in previous probations. Gibb said that Lori was receptive of the information.

Gibb testified that she met JJ and Tylee at Lori's house. She said that it seemed like Tylee and Lori had a difficult relationship and they didn't get along very well. She said that she could tell that Lori had a lot of affection for JJ, but he was autistic, and he seemed to be “very busy" for Lori.

Gibb testified that she saw Lori daily or several times a week during the beginning of their friendship, but that all changed in January 2019 when Lori “started moving.” She said that they lived within 20- 25 minutes of each other. She said they still spoke on the phone.

Gibb testified that the next time she saw Chad again was the next month at a conference in Arizona. Tammy was not there, but Lori was. Gibb said she saw Chad at a gathering at Lori's house before the conference. Gibb said it was a small group of people with about 20 of Lori's friends. 

Gibb said at the gathering Lori and Chad talked often with each other and they seemed to be very interested in each other. She said that Lori told her again that she had been married to Chad in multiple probations. Lori had also told Gibb that she was going to be resealed to Chad in the temple like they had done in previous lives. Lori told Gibb they had gone to the temple in November of 2018 while Charles and Tammy were both still alive. Blake asked if Charles was present at the gathering. Gibb said no that he was out of town. 

Blake asked Gibb what Chad did for a living. She said that Chad was an author, a publisher and a sexton. Gibb was then asked if she had read any of his books and she said yes. Then she was asked if Lori had read any of his books and Gibb answered yes and that she seemed interested in them.

Gibb testified that Chad stayed at Lori's house the night of the gathering while Charles wasn't there. Gibb said that multiple people stayed there, but Chad was the only male.

Gibb said Lori would often call Chad and Chad would give her information about multiple probations. Lori would then come back and share what she learned with Gibb and her other friends. Gibb said Lori shared about “light” and “dark” from Chad. Gibb said if someone was light, they made contracts with Jesus Christ before they came here and if they were dark, they made contracts with Satan. She said that there was a scale level about how light and dark people were.

Lori also told Gibb how people had lived multiple times, and she would try to figure out when. 

Lori would ask Chad how many times people had been on other planets and then she would share it with Gibb and her other friends. Blake asked if people were designated with a number and then an L or a D. Gibb said that was correct. She said that the numbers and letters originated from Chad. She testified that "D" stood for "Dark" and "L" for "Light".

Gibb testified that Lori had felt her mission was to gather women for the 144,000 and that at some point she would be the leader. Gibb said the 144,000 was a Biblical explanation for people who would go out and gather Israel at the end of times and had the power and authority to do that. Blake asked Gibb where Lori got these beliefs. Gibb said that it came from herself. Gibb said that Lori shared with Chad that she was the gatherer and he agreed with her and told her that that was her mission.

Gibb testified that Lori talked to others about light and dark and what it was such as Zulema, Melanie P, Alex and others. Blake asked Gibb if she knew if Chad ever shared teachings and beliefs with those people. Gibb said yes, she was present when he did.

Gibb testified that she heard some of the teachings at the gathering at Lori's house and that Chad and Lori were present. Gibb said she had heard of these concepts before, but not in the way Chad was teaching them. Gibb said at the time she had been open to learn more about those things. 

Gibb testified how Chad and Lori spoke to her about people switching from light to dark or dark to light. She said some evil entity could enter a person, and a light person could become dark. She said that Lori said she got the information from Chad.

Gibb said that the first time she heard Lori talk about light and dark was in January of 2019. She said that Lori said that the first person that became dark was Charles and she had received it from Chad. Lori originally told Gibb that Chad said that when a person became dark, their spirit would go into the spirit world, but the body was still alive with a dark spirit. Lori had told Gibb that she would try to do a casting out of the evil spirit and try to convince the evil spirit to leave. Gibb testified that Lori got that idea from energy work.

Gibb said that Lori called Charles was called Ned Schneider and that she got that name from Chad. Gibb said that Lori told her about a dream she had when Charles was out of town about Charles and JJ being in a car crash and were not going to come back. After the dream, Lori told Gibb Charles turned dark.

Blake asked Gibb if she was ever there for a casting. She said that she was. She said that the ladies would stand in a circle, some would say a prayer, and some would send spiritual weapons. She said that the people who were having the spirits cast of out them were not physically there. Gibb testified that when they did the casting for Charles, Chad said that Ned left but then shortly after another entity went in his body. Gibb said that there were additional castings in relation to Charles, which she participated in. She said they tried to cast the next evil spirit out of Charles, and it worked, according to Lori. Lori said she received this information from Chad, but when Charles' didn't die Chad told Lori that another entity came into his body. Gibb said that Chad was present for some of the castings.

Gibb said that another casting that was done was Brandon Boudreaux, which she and Chad were present for. Gibb said she had met Brandon, who was Lori's niece's husband at the time, and Lori told her that he was designated dark by Chad.

Blake asked Gibb if Lori had ever preformed castings on Tammy. Gibb said yes, but she wasn't present for them. Blake then asked if there was ever casting done on JJ and Tylee. She said not that she knew of.

Gibb stated that the casting for Charles happened between January and February 2019 until before he died.

Gibb said that she was told that if the casting was done right that the body would die. Blake then asked if she had been told if violence would be done to the body. Gibb said never.

Blake asked Gibb if there were others involved in the castings besides her. She replied yes that there were some that had more involvement than others like Lori and Zulema.

Gibb then testified that at the casting that Chad was present at was in Arizona.

Gibb testified that Charles was killed on July 11th, 2019, which was shortly after the castings took place. Blake asked Gibbs if she started to believe Charles was possessed. She answered that she did to some level. She testified that she met Charles a handful of times, but didn't know him very well and most of what she knew about him she got from Lori.

Gibb then testified how she stayed with Lori in July 2019 and at some point, Lori asked her to leave. She said that she woke up early in the morning and Lori told her that she needed to leave because "Charles was driving in from Texas and was going to kill her." Lori also told Gibb that Alex was going to be there to protect her.

Gibb then testified to Alex and Lori's relationship with each other. She said that they had a close brother and sister relationship, but nothing unusual. She testified that Chad had told Lori that Alex was designated her protector.

Blake asked Gibb if she ever heard Charles threaten Lori. Gibb said no.

After Charles was killed, Gibb said Lori told her Charles came in from Texas and that they were arguing. She said that Lori said that she grabbed his cellphone, and he was really upset with her. They were standing around the kitchen and Tylee had a bat and was trying to protect her mom or herself. Then Charles and Alex got into a physical fight and then Alex went to get a gun to defend himself/ Gibb was told that then Alex shot and killed Charles.

Gibb testified that when she talked to Alex and Lori about what had happened it was about four days later and there was no sign of grief or sadness. She said that Alex though, seemed thoughtful and unsure of himself. 

Gibb said she saw Chad a few weeks after Charles died at Lori's house in Arizona. Blake asked her if Tammy was still alive at that time. She said she was.

Gibb said that Chad and Lori were super excited to be together. They were standing side-by-side at the kitchen table with several people and were excited to share their future plans together. Gibb said that there were no signs of grief from Chad. 

Court took a break and when they came back Gibb testified that before Charles' death she had conversations with Lori about her relationship with Chad. Gibb said Lori told her they really loved each other, and they had multiple lives together, they had missions together and there was physical affection and contact. Lori told Gibb that every time they would get together, she would pray to Jesus and ask him if it was ok. Then she would meet up with him at hotels.

Gibb said she had asked Lori why they were they didn't get divorces. Lori said that Chad said that if he got a divorce, he would lose his exaltation. Gibb then testified that Charles had started divorce proceedings.

Blake asked Gibb if she saw Lori with more than one phone. Gibb said yes, she saw Lori with three phones. Lori had told Gibb that one was her personal phone, the other phone was just for Chad. Gibb didn't know what the third one was for. Gibb said that Lori said that Chad a special phone just for her. Gibb testified that Lori and Chad talked daily. 

Blake asked Gibb what the names that Lori and Chad had in prior lives. Gibb said she couldn't remember the names, but she did remember that Lori was married to Moroni, James and she was Chad’s wife, but he was James, and she was Elaina. Chad was considered to be Methuselah and she was his daughter. Another time she was a lady who was married to a relative of Joseph Smith.

Gibb said that when Lori was Elaina, Chad was James which was one of the apostles of Jesus. She said Lori learned this information from Chad. Gibb said Lori told her that Chad would sit in his portal and ask questions to get his information. Gibb said that she saw Lori’s portal and it was nothing but just a spot in her closet. Gibb said that it was Chad that told and taught Lori about the portal.

Gibb testified that she last saw Tylee in Arizona in July or August of 2019.

Blake asked Gibb if she recalled Lori leaving Arizona. Gibb said yes that Lori told her she needed to go to Idaho to be with Chad and start their missions together. Gibb confirmed that at that point Tammy was still alive.

Gibb testified that at some point, Lori had told her that Tylee was dark. Blake then asked her where Lori got that information and Gibb responded that she guessed from Chad because generally Lori would turn to Chad for these answers.

Gibb testified that she saw Chad use a pendulum once to get his answers. She said the pendulum was gold or brass and was pointy with a string. She said it was in February 2019 in Boise. Gibb was there for a conference. She said that Chad, Zulema, Sarina and Audrey and other people were at the conference. Gibb said that she believed that Lori was in Hawaii and that was why she wasn't at that conference.

Gibb testified that when Lori moved to Idaho it was after Charles had been killed and JJ, Tylee and Alex went with her. The move also came after Chad told Lori that Alex was her protector.

Gibb said that after Lori moved to Idaho, she spoke to Lori on the phone. She said that Lori was in her apartment playing games with Alex and Tylee. Gibb confirmed that she heard Tylee in the background and that it was August or September.

Gibb testified that she visited Lori the weekend of Sept. 22, 2019, because there was a conference in Rexburg, and also, she was going to record a podcast with Lori. She said that they had recorded podcasts together before. Gibb said she stayed with Lori and when they arrived at the home, Alex and JJ were there. She said that occasionally Chad would come over. Gibb her husband David Warick, who was her boyfriend and the time, was also there. Gibb testified that Alex had his own apartment but would be at Lori's at times. 

Gibb testified that she never saw Tylee in Idaho and when asked Lori where Tylee was, Lori said that she was at BYU-Idaho with her roommates. She said that Lori never talked about Tylee again, Tylee never came and visited, and she never heard Lori talk on the phone to her.

Gibb said that she stayed in Tylee’s room and that the only thing that was in there was furniture.

Gibb said that Lori told her that the day before she arrived JJ became dark. Gibb confirmed that Lori had told her before that Tylee was dark. Gibb said that she didn’t observe any behaviors from JJ that caused her concern.

Blake asked Gibb what JJ and Chad's interactions were like with each other. Gibb said that she arrived on a Wednesday and the next day, JJ was upset, and Chad took him upstairs. After a period of time, Chad came back downstairs holding his hand and had a red scratch on his neck. Gibb asked him what happened, and Chad said JJ had scratched him. 

Blake asked Gibb if during the weekend she was visiting, was Tammy was still alive, Gibb said yes. She said she heard Chad talk a little about Tammy. She said David asked Chad questions about Tammy.  Chad asked David not to tell anyone about his relationship with Lori. She said that heard Chad say that Tammy was a good wife and never heard anything about a divorce or separation.

Gibb testified that while she was there, Chad and Lori seemed to be a couple that was close, loved each other and were very affectionate. She said that Lori would kiss him on the cheek, they sang together and danced a little. Gibb said that when they around the BYU-Idaho campus, Chad and Lori were holding hands. Gibb asked them if they were concerned Tammy might see them together. Lori said Tammy was not aware of his personal life like that – where he went. Gibb confirmed there was no indication of divorce or separation.

Gibb testified that Lori told her that Sept. 22nd was a special day for her. She said it was the anniversary of when she saw Moroni in the temple. 

Gibb testified that the last time she saw JJ was Sunday night on the 22nd. She said that she was doing recording with Lori and David when Alex walked in the door holding JJ on the shoulder. She said that JJ was asleep, and Alex was taking him to bed. She said that JJ often slept in the corner of his mom’s room in a little bed. He also had his own bedroom. JJ did not sleep in his bedroom that night because she was in JJ’s room. She said she ended up in JJ's room because she was in there talking with David. She said that it was her understanding that JJ went to bed in Lori's room that night.

Gibb then talked about David having a nightmare that night. She said that David woke up with a panic and that he was very disturbed by the dream. Gibb called out to get help from Lori and/or Chad to ask for a priesthood blessing of comfort. Gibb texted or called Chad, but he didn’t respond. Gibb said that this was sometime in the early morning hours. Gibb texted and called Lori, but she didn’t answer either, so she went to Lori’s room, but it was locked.

Gibb testified that she never saw JJ again.

Blake asked Gibb if she Lori talked about how she was going to survive after Charles died. Lori told Gibb that she was receiving JJ's Social Security and SS from Charles. Gibb didn't think that Lori ever received any life insurance from Charles. She also said that Lori didn't have a job that she was aware of.

Gibb testified that Lori told her that JJ was acting out more and was acting like he was possessed. She said that Lori seemed troubled, JJ had been taken over by an evil spirit. Lori told her that she wanted Kay Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother, to take him. She told Gibb that she wanted to meet up with Kay at the airport and tell her that she had cancer so she would take JJ.

Gibb said that Lori said that she eventually met with Kay and gave her JJ.

Gibb said that the morning after she last saw JJ, Lori said JJ was with Alex. She later told Gibb that she met up with Kay in the Salt Lake City airport, and Kay took JJ.

Gibb said that in Nov. 2019, two or three days before Thanksgiving, Chad called her when she was in Utah. Chad told her that the Rexburg police were going to call her and ask about JJ. He asked her not to pick up the phone. He said Lori told the police Gibb had JJ. Gibb testified that Chad sounded nervous during the call. Gibb said that she had asked Chad "He's not with Kay?" And Chad told her no. She said that then Chad told her that Lori would call her shortly, that she was talking with police.

Gibb said that when she talked to Lori, Lori was very positive and upbeat. Lori said that she was protecting Tylee and JJ because Kay and others were trying to kidnap him. She then told Gibb to go to the movie "Frozen" and take pictures of other kids to make it look like she took him.

Gibb said that when law enforcement first reached out to her, she didn't respond.

Gibb said that at some point Alex told her law enforcement had come to his house and Melani P's house to ransack his house and asked where JJ was. Alex told her that law enforcement were considered dark translated beings. Gibb testified that Chad determined who was dark. Gibb did not initially answer the call from the police because she said she didn't know what to do. She ended up calling Gilbert, Arizona, Police telling then that she had JJ but no longer had him and he was back with Lori.

Gibb said the day she was originally going to talk with the police, she got a call from an old friend who was an attorney. She said that she told her friend about the situation and the attorney suggested a welfare check be done. She said the attorney reached out to police and requested a welfare check. Gibb said at the time she was concerned about JJ and Tylee's wellbeing.

Gibb testified that she later sat down with law enforcement and told them everything without an attorney present. She told them that JJ had never been with her.

Gibb said that after Thanksgiving she and David called Chad and Lori and asked them where JJ was. She said that Chad and Lori would not tell her. 

Gibb said she spoke with Alex a day or two after Thanksgiving and told him her concerns about JJ. Gibb that she was walking with Alex and Melani P. in a field behind Zulema's house. She said she asked Alex, “Do I want to know here JJ is?” Gibb said that Alex told her no. He then proceeded to tell her about the police coming to his apartment.

Gibb then testified that she had David in the room with her when she called Chad and Lori on Dec. 8, 2019. She said she recorded the call. Blake then admitted the call into evidence.

Chad- “Hello, sweet Melanie.”

Melanie G- “Hi, Chad. Hey, Lori.”

Chad- "Here, let me put it on speaker.”

Melanie G- “Oh, OK.”

Chad- “All right.”

Chad- “We’re inept with the phone.”

Melanie- “How are you guys?”

Chad- “We’re okay, how are you doing babe?”

Melanie- “I’m doing pretty good, thanks. I was wondering, where are you guys?”

Chad- “We’re just hanging out.”

Melanie- “Hanging out? Are you? Are you in Idaho?”

Lori- “No.”

Chad- “We’re nowhere near Idaho. ”

Melanie- “I just wanted to ask you a question if you don’t mind, Lori.”

Lori- “Of course, honey.”

Melanie- “I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay’s [Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother and Lori’s sister-in-law from prior husband Charles Vallow] house? And he told me they went there. And now he’s not there. I was wondering what happened?”

Lori- “Well, I had to move in somewhere else because of her actions. So…”

Melanie- “Was she, was she doing something? Like was she trying to come get them or something or, like trying to kidnap them?”

Lori- “Well, she’s, yeah, she said that often times before, but, umm…”

Melanie- “Okay. Well, you know, when I asked Chad the other day, I was like, hey, you know, where is JJ? And he said for my security, he didn’t want me to know. So is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?”

Lori- “No, it’s nobody. It’s his danger. It’s the danger that there’s people after me.”

Melanie- “Okay.”

Chad- “We just thought if you knew, that puts you in a danger.”

Lori- “Well, just in a bad position.”

Chad- “Yeah, a bad position for her.”

Lori- “Everybody. If they don’t know anything, then they don’t have to say they know.”

Melanie- “Right? So you’re just worried, okay.”

Lori- “I’m just, keep him protected…”

Chad- “And keep you protected.”

Lori- “And keep everybody else.”

Melanie- “I appreciate that. Well, I was wondering why you told the police why he was with me.”

Lori- “I just needed to use, talk somebody, so I wouldn’t have to tell them where he really was if they were going to tell Kay where he is.”

Melanie- “Oh yeah, so is it you think it’s like your family? Or you know, like your family, your dad or you know or those people?”

Lori- “Well my family, well not my whole family but as you know, most of my family is working against me and–”

Melanie- “Yeah.”

Lori - “–with her, basically.”

Melanie- “Yeah. Is JJ safe?”

Lori- “He is safe and happy.”

Melanie- “Okay, well, that’s good to hear. Are you afraid of anything? Like, are you afraid to tell me that you’re just afraid that he, umm, that I could be in danger? Like you’re, y’know like I don’t, like if I knew, like, how could that hurt me? I don’t understand all that can hurt me if I knew where he was.”

Lori- “Well, I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or question to where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.”

Melanie- “Yeah. Okay, I hope, wow. I hope he’s okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question. I asked Al at one point, your brother if I wanted to know, you know, like where he was? And he said, I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean?”

Lori- “I don’t know why he would say that. But it’s the same story. I didn’t even want Al to know I don’t want anybody to know so that nobody has to be worried about it. I mean, nobody has to be–”

Melanie- “Yeah.”

Lori- “–questioned about it so he can be safe.”

Melanie- “Yeah, so are you I mean, are you — How long are you gonna be away for? Like how, I mean, are you ever going to be able to come out and come back to society again? Are you going to keep, you know, like, come back? I mean, like, what does that look like?”

Lori- “I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do every day so…”

Melanie- “Okay. I just wondered if I was ever going to see you again.”

Lori- “Absolutely, you will.”

Melanie- “Okay, so, so maybe when they’re done chasing you, you’ll be able to come out of, JJ will come out again? Or…”

Lori- “Yeah, I mean, it’s a ridiculous thing for them to be working with Kay to find me there’s nothing that’s gone on that’s, y’know what I’m saying? Like, they’re working with her in some dark capacity. The police are working with her in some dark capacity. There’s no reason for them to be after me in the first place.”

Melanie- “Yeah. Has she, has she threatened you at all?”

Lori- “Yes, lots of times.”

Melanie- “Oh boy. What did she say?”

Lori- “Well, it’s in emails and everything. So…”

Melanie- “So, like she said she was gonna come take them or she was…”

Lori- “There’s a lot of things…”

Melanie- “Yeah.”

Lori- “…Melanie.”

Melanie- “Well I know it sounds like it. I’m just worried for you guys because you know, he’s missing. And, you know…”

Lori- “I know exactly where he is. He’s perfectly fine with me.”

Melanie- “Okay, well, I hope so.”

Lori- “(Unintelligible)”

Melanie- “I have a scripture I wanted to share with you if you don’t mind.”

Lori- “I’d love it.”

Melanie- “I was thinking about some of the things you guys have gone through. And I saw this scripture today. And I wanted to–”

Lori- “Let me ask you a question.”

Melanie- “Okay, yeah.”

Lori- “Let me ask you a question about a scripture, ‘kay? Did Alma turn yourself into King Noah? Or what it was he required to be?”

Melanie- “Well, King Noah was incredibly wicked.”

Lori- “Yes.”

Melanie- “And so he fled his, his evil ways which is, which is adultery and, and living riotously and breaking all the commandments.”

Lori- “Right. So, what did he, what was he required to do, Alma?”

Melanie- “He had to go and flee so that he would be safe and then help other people realize how, you know, jacked up the system was and the government was.”

Lori- “What about Moroni? What was he required to do at the end?”

Melanie- “To, to carry Alma’s plates and bury them. That was his responsibility,”

Lori- “What did he do that? What did he have to do to do that? Did he hide?”

Melanie- “Well, he had to hide. He had to hide because they were so–”

Lori- “Oh.”

Melanie- “They were so, everybody was killing everybody in this society everybody was dying. They were killing all the Nephites.”

Lori- “That’s, that’s, and the scriptures had to hide in the cavity of a rock by day and go out by night.”

Melanie- “The prophets, the prophets, the prophets did.”

Lori- “They did.”

Melanie- “Yep. Okay, well thank you for sharing that with me. Okay, I just, this scripture’s just something that may be thoughtful for you. ‘For behold– ‘This is Doctrine and Covenants Section 3, Verse 7 and 8. Says, ‘For behold you should not have feared man more than God. Although man set not the councils of God to despise his words, yet you should have been faithful, and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary. He would have been with you in every trouble.’ So, when we work with the Lord and are obedient, he has, he’s gonna protect us from adversarial darts and all kinds of negativity, but when we open the door to Satan, he comes in and then he attacks and then he takes away to make it look like somebody else took it away. But that’s not how God works. He doesn’t work in darkness.”

Lori- “I agree with you one hundred percent. And that’s what the Lord is doing for me. Exactly what he’s doing for me.”

Melanie- “Well, I was just–”

Lori- “We have not opened the door to darkness, Mel. Darkness is knocking on the door all the time, because that’s the way dark works with the light. And I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case. But sometimes you have to hide in a cavity of a rock for your own life safety. And that’s what the Lord requires of you sometimes. And that’s how it is. And I’m sorry that’s how it is because there’s a lot of darkness on the earth.”

Melanie- “I know.”

Lori- “That’s been after me for zero reason, besides the darkness of Kay, which you already know, she’s dark.”

Melanie- “I haven’t met her enough to know if she’s dark or not. I’ve just met her slightly and she seemed like a normal kind of person, but then I haven’t engaged with her that much. So I don’t know that personally.”

Lori- “So you don’t know about her changing the things for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy and also none of that’s dark right.”

Melanie- “Well, I haven’t seen those documents, so I have no way of knowing.”

Lori- “You’ve seen them on my computer.”

Melanie- “No, I have not. I haven’t even looked on your computer before. You haven’t showed me anything.”

Lori- “I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call.”

Melanie- “Well–”

Lori- “But I love you with all my heart and I have forever and I will always–”

Melanie- “Well, I appreciate those words. But if you really love me, you wouldn’t have told the police that I had JJ with me. That’s not, that’s not what a friend does. I mean, that just makes me look weird. And it just, it’s not safe. For me. That doesn’t look good. You have to think of my welfare if you love me.”

Lori- “I do, and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do. And I appreciate you and I love you.”

Melanie- “Well–”

Lori- “And I’d never to do anything to harm you. And you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord.”

Melanie- “I have and my, my conscience is clear. I feel very understanding what’s really going on, Lori. And I believe that, I believe that you have been very deceived by Satan. I believe that he has tricked you. And I just, I don’t believe that what you’re doing is correct. I just don’t, I mean, Tammy dies. And then your husband died. And then, and then he’s missing it just doesn’t sound like God’s plan to me. Just sounds, it gives me a gut feeling, like in my gut, it feels weird. It doesn’t feel right. I don’t have peace about I never have felt one-hundred percent peace about always felt like a little weird in my stomach about all these things.”

Lori- “You know me, Mel. You know me. This does not sound like you. It sounds like you’ve been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things and have fear and have fear of the Celestial world.”

Melanie- “I don’t have fear.”

Lori- “You obviously do.”

Melanie- “No, I have a peace of conscience and I can see clearly.”

Lori- “Well I’m sorry that you feel that way. I love you so much.”

Melanie- “I know you do. I don’t know what else to say.”

Lori- “Stand for Christ when he comes again and he’s coming soon, and we will all stand there, and you will know at that point that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time and I have not been deceived.”

Chad- “I just want to testify that I, I know Tammy [Daybell, Chad’s deceased first wife who died in October 2019] loves (unintelligible) and the conspiracy theories. My sister-in-law’s right behind it all and I hope that you’re not being influenced by dark game.”

Melanie- “I don’t know who she is. I’m sorry. You said your sister-in-law? I don’t even know her.”

Chad- “I know, but she’s coming up with the same type of theories. And it’s just not true. My own children were there. They testified that Tammy had been getting weaker and sick and I begged her to go to the doctor. There’s, she just, her heart was failing her. She was physically falling apart. And she hates doctors and she just passed away. That’s how it happened. My son Garth was right there with me the whole time. My kids were at the house within 20 minutes of her passing. There were two coroners. They checked her out right there on the bed. All these conspiracy theories just make me sick to my stomach. Just absolutely sick. I know, I’ve been told for years that Tammy would pass away at a young age. I had no idea that Lori would even be a part of my life. I just knew that my life had two segments and that I know Tammy’s on a special mission and she’s with my kids. She’s visited them. Just, there’s so much, Melanie, that you just have to have faith. And this is not some sort of master plan. There’s no way Lori and I could have ever come up with this. It’s just…”

Melanie- “You can understand my concern, correct?”

Chad- “I can, from an outside perspective. But, from an–”

Lori- “From someone who knows as much as you know? No, not really. But we can feel Dave’s [Warwick, Melanie’s boyfriend] influence on you. I can feel that for sure.”

Melanie- “He’s a very good man. And he has a very strong foundation. That I know.”

Lori- “I know, but he seems to be the one that’s putting the doubts in your mind.”

Melanie- “No, no, but, you know what? I have, I have come to understand that my gut feeling, I was not listening to it. And I always felt uncomfortable with many things.”

Chad- “Okay.”

Lori- “Well, I’m sorry that I included you in those teachings then for your own sake because I wish that you didn’t have as much knowledge as you have, because you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have, Mel.”

Melanie- “So will you.”

Lori- “I agree. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I have no fear. I have no fear of that that. But–”

Melanie- “I was reading the story of Korihor and it’s so very similar to this, you just can’t see it. But he did it because he was trying to reclaim a people and he thought at the very end because of his carnal and natural desires. That’s what influenced him. And he was very, very–”

Lori- “That’s me? And carnal natural desires?”

Melanie- “Well honey, you got a lot of natural desires. We all know that.”

Lori- “That’s what you think is me? Korihor? Are you kidding me right now?”

Melanie- “I think both of you have had similar, similarities. It’s in the scriptures. It’s in the scriptures. And the scriptures are very powerful.”

Lori- “Yes, they are. I live by the scriptures, as you know.”

Melanie- “I know, but we can wrest the Scriptures for our own vainglory.”

Lori- “I wrested the scriptures?”

Melanie- “We can. We can do that, and I feel that you have to (unintelligible) our belief systems.”

Lori- “Do I wrest the scriptures? That was you’re accusing me of at this point?”

Melanie- “I feel that you have.”

Lori- “How, why do you feel that way? I need an explanation on this.”

Melanie- “Because if you look like the scripture, just said, okay–”

Lori- “(Unintelligible) the scriptures every single day? Do you know?”

Melanie- “Oh, I know you read them. I don’t doubt that. But this scripture right here says that you will be supported by all against the fiery darts of the adversary. You would have been supported. If you had not opened dark portals and dark junk. You would have been safe. If you would have obeyed God, he would have had your back but you have been chased and tortured and–”

Lori- “(Unintelligible)”

Melanie- I’m sorry?”

Lori- “He has my back, so…”

Melanie- “Well, if he has your back, you would not not be able to tell me where you are. And we couldn’t find JJ. Like, where is he? I’ve been asking. Where is he? And you know what I mean? That’s, that’s not the Lord’s work.”

Lori- “I could tell everything where JJ is right now and that would not be good for JJ. So, I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children. But I would never ask you to not protect your children.”

Melanie- “Of course you wouldn’t.”

Lori- “So I can tell that you’re just adversarial, Mel. I love you. I’m sorry that you feel this way.”

Melanie- “I’m not, this is because I actually do care. I’m sharing what I feel for you because I know your salvation’s in trouble for what you’ve done.”

Lori- “My salvation’s not in trouble at all and I think you should check that with the Lord again.”

Melanie- “Well I, I, I felt a lot of things from the Lord. And this doesn’t feel right.”

Lori- “Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way, sweetheart. I’m sorry that you’re friends with all those who are are against me. Joseph Smith’s friends turned against him.”

Melanie- “I’m not friends with people that are against you.”

Lori- “Apparently you are.”

Melanie- “I am not. I don’t know Kay. I don’t know who you’re talking about, your sister-in-law. I don’t even know what her name or who she is. I don’t know any of those people. Why would they contact me anyway? How would I even know about that?”

Lori- “Well, you’re friends with Dave and he’s apparently against me now.”

Melanie- “Well, David is a very righteous man. And I’ve always known that grounding about him. And he has a lot of beautiful experiences with the Lord. And these are not the same. You know, when you get the Priesthood. That’s Peter, James and John shows up and then he confirms all those in the circle that are to get it and everybody’s a witness of that. Everybody’s a witness that the pattern is in the scriptures. There’s no witness that you ever receive what you think you’ve received. Nobody has seen that but you. There’s no witness the witness Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, Martin Harris. The eight witnesses. They all showed up.”

Lori- “Was there a witness when Jesus and Heavenly Father gave that to Joseph Smith by himself in the Grove, was there a witness?”

Melanie- “No, but they had it later with other people. That was one experience, but others joined in later when he brought other people into it. And they had experiences.”

Lori- “(Unintelligible) Was that in the scriptures? Yes or no?”

Melanie- “I’m sorry?”

Lori- “Is that the scriptures? Yes, or no?”

Melanie- “That, that Joseph was alone when he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ?”

Lori- “Yes.”

Melanie- “Yes, he was alone.”

Lori- “He was alone.”

Melanie- “But he opened up–”

Lori- “So that’s not a pattern at all.”

Melanie- “Honey, what I’m saying is, is that after he saw that and other people joined in, they saw the things with him. He wasn’t alone. There was a witness for them. There was no witness anybody’s never seen what you’ve seen or experienced what you’ve seen. That is your own witness, but nobody’s had that.”

Lori- “I know God knows it, and I will never deny it. For my soul would be at stake if I did. So you can say it didn’t happen to me, Mel. But if I say it, then I am accountable. You didn’t witness it. But I did.”

Melanie- “But your behaviors is not, okay–”

Lori- “(Unintelligible) Jesus Christ.”

Melanie- “I understand that’s what you, you believe you saw but this is the thing is I see is that your behaviors not one of somebody that’s seen Christ.”

Lori- “Never (unintelligible)”

Melanie- “Your behavior, your behavior. What?”

Lori- “Never had any idea that you would be the person, of all people, to drag me. I cannot believe it.”

Melanie- “I’m asking questions and I am concerned for you. That is what somebody does when they care.”

Lori- “You don’t sound like you’re concerned. You sound like you’re accusatory. You do not sound concerned. You sound pissed off.”

Melanie- “I’m not. I am very, I am troubled. Maybe that’s the better word: troubled. Because these things, like you being with Chad before he’s even divorced, is unusual behavior for a person that’s seen Jesus Christ.”

Lori- “I was never with him and he was never divorced.”

Melanie- “Honey, I’ve seen you guys together.”

Lori- “That’s your story. (Unintelligible)”

Melanie- “Oh, oh. So, I haven’t ever seen you with, I’ve never seen you with Chad, kiss him and walk around the track and BYU with him. I never saw that? You say I’m–”

Lori- “You’re the one who’s feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced.”

Melanie- “Oh honey. I think that’s not what we’re talking about here.”

Lori- “It’s not what we’re talking about here. That’s why I’m saying. You aren’t going off the deep end. But–”

Melanie- “I’m just saying, this is not a behavior of someone that sees Jesus Christ. It’s not the behavior.”

Lori- “Really?”

Melanie- “Really.”

Lori- “Have you ever seen Jesus Christ so do you know what the future behavior would be if you’d seen Jesus Christ?”

Melanie- “I know that when I, I know that when I pray–”

Lori- “(Unintelligible) each of you every day and he does protect me and he is protecting me, and he will protect me against this accusation as well. And we will both stand there with him. And you tell me if I was lying or not when we’re both standing there with Jesus Christ.”

(Call disconnects)

Melanie- “Okay.”

Now there are a few things you need to know about some of the words that were mentioned in this call. 

Korihor is an anti-Christ type figure in the Book of Mormon.

King Noah was a pretty bad guy as well. He was best known for burning the prophet Abinadi at the stake. It is also said that he presided over a wicked kingdom guided by false priests.

Blake asked Gibb if she knew where Chad and Lori were during the call. She answered no. Blake then asked her if they seemed upset. Gibb confirmed that they seemed they were in good moods.

Blake asked Gibb if she knew who Lori was referencing when she said that there were people after her. Gibb said Lori was talking about Kay and Lori’s brother Adam and the police.  Lori told her that they were all dark and they knew who she was spiritually, and their goal was to take JJ, and her life may have been in danger. Blake asked Gibb again to confirm who chose if people were light or dark. Gibb answered that it was Chad.

Blake asked Gibb, "You talk in there to her about why she would say JJ was with you correct?' Gibb said that was right. Blake then said," Lorie makes a comment along the lines of 'she just needed someone, so she didn't have to say where he really was.'" Gibb replied yes. Blake asked Gibb if Lori ever told her where JJ was. Gibb said no. Blake then asked Gibb if Lori ever mentioned what she meant by the comment in the phone call that "JJ is safe and happy". Gibb said that she didn't think so. Gibb confirmed that the phone call was on December 8th of 2019 and that the last time she saw JJ alive was September 22nd of 2019.

Blake said that in the recording that Lori mentioned Kay as being dark. Gibb said that was right. Gibb then testified that she had briefly met Kay at that point. Blake asked Gibb who the sister-in-law Chad was referring to in the call. Gibb said it was Heather Daybell and Gibb had never met her before.

Blake said that in the call Chad said that "Tammy was physically falling apart and she just passed away", but that he also mentioned "That he knew for some time that she was going to die" and that, "He was going to have a second part to his life." Gibb said that that was right, and that Chad had shared that information publicly at a few conferences that she was going to pass away early. She agreed that Lori also believed Tammy was going to pass away early. She said that Lori got that information from Chad.

Gibb said that Lori felt like Gibbs was in danger for turning on the teachings of Chad and Lori and that she would have to account for it in the next life.

Gibb testified that she wasn't always comfortable with all of the things that Lori and Chad taught. She said how at some point they referred to dark people as zombies and being married multiple times was different. She said there was some uncertainty in their teaches and she never believed 100 percent of it.

Blake said that in the recording Lori said she knew where JJ was, and Chad was right there with her. Gibb said that was correct.

The court took a lunch break.

Blake asked if she knew the date of when Tammy died. Gibb said it was in Oct. 2019. Gibb said she reached out to Lori, and it seemed like Lori already knew of Tammy's death. Gibb said she had talked to Lori before Tammy died and Lori told her that eventually Tammy was supposed to continue her mission on the other side of the veil and that she would be ok with Lori being with Chad.

Gibb testified that she first heard Tammy referred to as dark at the end of September or early October 2019. Gibb confirmed again that Chad was the one who would label people dark. Gibb said Lori told her that Tammy became suspicious about her relationship with Chad.

Blake asked if the teachings of life and dark evolved at some point. Gibb said yes, dark people were then zombies. She testified that other teachings evolved too.

Blake then asked if Lori ever said she believed Chad. Gibb said that Lori mentioned once or twice, “If Chad is Satan, he sure is a good one.” Gibb said that gave her some indication that there was some doubt.

Blake asked Gibb if Alex told her if he believed Chad. Gibb said she asked Alex if he 100% believed zombies were really true. Alex told her he 100% believed it. Blake has no further questions. 

Prior was up for the cross. He told Gibb that he wanted to go through a timeline with her. He asked her when she had met Chad. She said the Summer of 2017 at the Preparing a People conference. She described the conference as some people shared about science, some shared about the Book of Mormon, some shared their visions, some shared about ancient scriptures, some shared about stars, etc. Gibb said that she had been to two mountain retreats and also to conferences a handful of times. She said she met her husband at a previous religious conference.

Prior asked Gibb if the religious conferences are consistent with her religious beliefs the LDS faith. Gibb said mostly. 

Prior asked Gibb what was the difference between visions and premonitions. Gibb said that a vision to her is something that feels like it’s actually happening while premonition is a gut feeling.

Prior asked Gibb how long she has been married to David Warwick. She says 3.5 years and after they got married, they lived together 9-10 months but now they live in different households by choice. Gibb lives in Arizona, and Warwick lives in Utah.

Prior then asked about dreams and visions. Gibb said that dreams are a little different than visions. She said that doesn’t have visions, but her faith believes people can have them. Prior asked if her husband has the gift of having dreams and visions. Gibb said yes. She confirmed that she believed, at one point, that Chad could have dreams and visions.

Gibb testified that before the conference in St. George where Chad met Lori, she had already heard that Chad had visions that his wife Tammy was going to have a short life. Prior asked Gibb if the only people she knew to that had visions were Chad and Warwick. She replied that no, there were others.

Prior asked Gibb to explain what energy work. Gibb said that a practitioner communicates with you or your body with a certain method they use through muscle testing. They ask questions about what’s going on in your body physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and the practitioner find different ways to make you feel better.

Prior asked Gibb what vibrations are. She that to her your body can have different vibrations and the vibrations can be positive. She said some people describe spiritual things as vibrations. Gibb said everything has a vibration and that vibrations are a frequency people put off. Prior asked if the frequency gives revelation. Gibb said not for her.

Prior asked if the light and dark teachings were inconsistent with the LDS faith. Gibb said yes.

Prior said at the conference where Lori and Chad first met, Chad was there to sell books. Gibb said correct. Prior asked about the book Gibb wrote. She said she started to write it in the middle of 2018 bout her LDS faith and it was called “Feel the Fire.” 

Prior said that Gibb has talked to a lot of officers and then named off three. He then mentioned that Gibb has talked to prosecutor Rob Wood and then asked her how often she spoke to him. Gibb said it was infrequent for a short period of time.

Prior then asked about an interview Gibb did with Nate Eaton from East Idaho News. Prior then asked about an interview did with Keith Morrison from “Dateline NBC.” Prior asked if there was any agreement of things that she wasn't going to talk about. Gibb couldn't recall.

Prior asks Gibb about her text messages between her and Wood in preparation for the preliminary hearing. He asked her, “Would it surprise you to learn that between May 6th of 2020 and November 4 of 2020 the two of you exchanged text messages over 340 times?” Gibb said was possible, but she really didn't know.

Prior asked if any time during her communication with Wood, did she suggest to him that she need to protect a person or an organization.  Gibb said her intent only to share what she knew.

Prior shared Gibb a text message on his laptop from Gibb to Wood that said she and Keith Morrison wanted to make sure the church was “protected.” 

Gibb testified that it was meant to clarify that the teachings Chad and Lori were engaged in were not consistent with the teachings of the LDS Church.

Prior then read the message out loud. “Keith, the guy from Dateline, and I want to make sure the church is protected. He has done a good job so far. That’s why I feel comfortable talking with him.”

Prior asked why Gibb sent that text to a prosecuting attorney who was prosecuting Chad Daybell. Gibb said she felt comfortable talking to Wood to let him know what she was up to.

Prior published two exhibits to the jury.

Prior had Gibb confirmed when it as that she met Lori. Gibb said it was the beginning of October 2018 and she was teaching a segment about health, nutrition and preparedness ideas.

Something was published to the jury that they weren't supposed to see, and they were asked to disregard.

Prior asked Gibb to clarify how often she spoke with Lori. She said that the daily communication stopped as Lori was “moving around.” Prior asked Gibb if Lori moved somewhere in January 2019. She said that Lori moved from one house to another house in Arizona and then to Hawaii around February 2019. Gibb said that when Lori moved to Hawaii, she saw Lori once.

Gibb testified that she really didn't have a relationship with Tylee. Gibb said that she was only around Tylee a few times and Tylee really wouldn't talk to her.

Prior asked how often Gibb spoke with Lori when she moved to Hawaii. Gibb said she didn't remember. Prior said that Gibb has testified that sometimes she doesn't remember things straight. He then asked her if she was suffering from that today. She said that when you have a relationship with somebody you are not going to remember every detail.

Prior then asked Gibb where Lori went after she left Hawaii at the end of March 2019. Gibb said that Lori went to stay with Alex in Arizona.

Prior asked when Lori was in Kaui, Hawaii February through March of 2019 if she was with Tylee for a portion of that. Gibb said she believed that Tylee and a friend were with her. Prior then said that JJ had been with Charles. Gibb said that she assumed.

Prior asked Gibb if she was aware that Charles had filed divorce proceedings. Gibb said she was aware. Prior asked her if she was also aware that there had been an attempt at a reconciliation between Charles and Lori. Gibb said that she believed so.

Prior asked about an “issue” with Charles, Alex and Lori at the Arizona home. Prior asked about the altercation with a bat and Alex going into his bedroom to get his gun and that he came back and there was a shooting. Gibb said yes, that is what she heard. Prior asked if Lori was there at the time of the shooting. Gibb said she was not sure, that Lori just "shared what she shared." Gibb said that she knew that at some point Lori took JJ to school.

Prior asked Gibb if she had information about Lori’s financial situation. Gibb said only what Lori shared with her. Prior asked Gibb if she was aware Lori got life insurance money after Joseph Ryan’s death. Gibb said that she was aware.

The court then took a break and when they returned Boyce said that there were some issues that need to be put on the record before the jurors came back. He wanted to clarify some exhibits that were marked Vallow/Daybell and wanted the name “Vallow” redacted in case the jurors think that was in connection to Lori's case.

Boyce said the last two defense exhibits were labeled with references that were not appropriate and that those references needed to be removed before were given to the jury.

Blake said that the inadvertently document published to the jury made reference to grand jury proceedings, preliminary hearing, Lori Vallow’s trial and inconsistent statements. She said that the state was concerned that Prior showed the item to the jurors. 

Prior said his notes were unintentionally displayed because he didn’t unplug his HDMI cord. He had apparently told a bailiff not to touch his computer and doesn't see why that was an issue.

Boyce said the bailiffs were in charge of the courtroom and asked all council to respect the bailiffs and not to say any editorial comments in front of the jurors. Boyce said he had full confidence in the way the bailiffs have handled the courtroom during the trial.

After the jurors were brought back in. Prior asked Gibb to clarify how light and dark were not in her practice. She said not in the way that "they" described light and darkness. She said that she would talk about how the light was the light of Christ. Prior said asked if identifying someone as light or dark would be something that Gibb would do. She said no.

Prior asked Gibb what a portal was. She said that Lori told her that they were created by them saying a prayer and creating a place where they could communicate spiritually to each other. Prior asked Gibb if it was something that she'd practice. She said no.

Prior the asked Gibb if most of the information of zombies and various levels of light and dark was conveyed to her from Lori. Gibb said yes and then she confirmed that she didn’t talk to Chad very often and spoke to him around a handful of times.

Prior asked Gibb if she was relying on what Lori was telling her, and she didn't know if what Lori is telling her is the truth. Gibb said that she wouldn't know 100 percent. Prior said that Lori had lied to Gibb before and had been untruthful about other things.” Gibb said yes.

Prior asked Gibb if before she recorded that call that she had with Lori and Chad, had she talked to any law enforcement about recording that conversation. Gibb said never.

Prior said that when he listened to the tape that Lori's responses sounded singular. He said that Lori's comments where "I" and not "They". Gibb said that that sounded familiar.

Prior said that Gibb initially lied to police when JJ first went missing. Gibb said sure. Gibb testified that she later went and saw them personally and talked to them about everything she knew. Prior said that the purpose of her going back to the police was to clear up her initial lie. Gibb said no. She said she felt an obligation was to share with them everything she knew with them. Gibb said it was a difficult moment for her, and that’s what she did. Prior asked if being in court was difficult for her. She says of course. Prior said Gibb was having some struggles because she knows she has information about JJ Vallow and what happened to him. Gibb says to the best of her knowledge, she has shared what she knows.

Gibb testified that wasn't 100 percent sure on how often she had seen Chad when she was at Lori's the weekend when she was in Rexburg. Gibb said that she either him the night she arrived or the next evening.

Prior said on the recording, Gibb spoke with Lori about the fact she was having a relationship with a married man, and she was a married woman. Gibb said that was correct and explained that she was referencing a Book of Mormon king who had that type of behavior. Prior asked if David was still married when Gibb began dating him. Gibb said that David was in the process of divorce.

Prior asked Gibb what Firm Foundation was that Gibb had gone to the Saturday the weekend she was at Lori's in Rexburg. She said a few people got together to talk about "evidences of Book of Mormon and some science". She testified that it was an all-day event. Prior said that on Sunday everyone went to church. Gibb said that she didn't remember anyone going to church. Gibb did recall that she went with David and Chad to look at some property in the afternoon. She said that a realtor was there, and couple drove by and spoke to the group. She said that Lori wasn't there, and she assumed Lori was home with JJ.

On Sunday evening, David, Gibb and Lori started recording a podcast around 8-9 p.m. and finished around midnight. She said that Chad was not there at the time.

Gibb confirmed that during the podcast, she observed Alex carrying JJ with his head on his shoulders upstairs. She said she did not notice where they put JJ, but she was in his room with David. She said that JJ wasn't in Tylee's room either. JJ and Tylee's room were close, and Lori’s was down the hallway.

Prior asked if after Gibb went to bed, if she assumed Lori went to bed and decided to lay down with JJ. Gibb said yes. Gibb confirmed she didn't know where JJ was that night. 

Prior asked about the nightmare/vision David had. Gibb said it was a “bad experience,” and David was very alarmed and upset by it. Gibb testified that she tried to open Lori's bedroom door, but it was locked, so she went back to sleep. She said she woke up around 7 the following morning. and left the house around 9:30 a.m. Prior asked Gibb if she asked to see JJ before she left. Gibb said it’s possible she couldn't recall.

Prior said that in her testimony with the prosecutors, Gibb was very clear in prosecutors and had no memory loss about zombies and dark and light. Gibb said yes. 

Darkmatter: Chad Daybell Trial: Rexburg Police Det. Chuck Kunsaitis and FBI Forensic Accountant Michael Douglass Took The Stand. (darkmatter69.blogspot.com)