Retired FBI agent Doug Hart was back on the stand with Bake continuing the questioning.
Blake showed a slide detailing text messages between Chad and Lori.
Hart said that the text messages showed that Lori had found out that Charles had changed the beneficiary on his life insurance policy.
Hart described the next slide, which displayed the life insurance documents that showed the beneficiary was changed from Lori to Kay Woodcock.
Text messages were shown from August 7th to the 8th of 2019.
Lori to Chad- “Mel wants us to come up there tomorrow, but I said next Thursday to Sunday. What do you think?”
Lori to Melani P- “We just had a big fight, Probably no go on next week.”
Lori to Chad- "My heart is crushed and i will never stop loving you."
Chad to Lori- "You're the best. I hope your day goes well. I adore you.
Chad to Lori- "Absolutely excruciating to be cut off from you. Love you."
Hart testified that the "Mel" was Lori's niece Melani P. He what caught his attention was the conflict between Lori and Chad. He said at that point Charles had been dead for almost a month and Lori wanted to go with Melani P. to Idaho to visit Chad. Chad was still married to Tammy, and she was still alive.
Hart testified that the fight was over that Chad had a family vacation planned when Lori and Melani wanted to come visit.
More messages were shown from the previous conversation.
Chad to Lori- “Good night. Saddest day of my life."
Chad- “Grandpa Keith is here. I am supposed to warn you that you are unprotected. The angels are angry that you are ignoring me. I told him to go back, but he says he isn’t allowed to. I’m honestly not trying to manipulate you to respond, I understand that you need your space. But they say you have cut me off, and the protection I build around your house is gone. I love you and don’t want you getting attacked. They said if you at least give me a (?) it will restore our connection enough to give some protection.”
Lori- “I love you.”
Chad- “Thank you, my love. I will get things restored.”
Hart testified that Chad's lengthy text was an example of how Chad used his visions to manipulate Lori. Hart said in that text that Grandpa Keith was Lori's deceased grandfather and how Chad said that he wasn't sure if he could protect her anymore and that the angels were angry.
The next slide was of a photo Lori sent to Chad on August 10th, of her on a beach wearing a yellow swimsuit with the text, “Surprises are waiting!!”
Hart said that that was an example of how Lori would manipulate Chad.
The next slide was another message sent later that night by Lori to Chad- “Very good description of what just happened. Wish you were really here to experience this with me.”
Lori- “Thank you for being mine. Wish I could wake up and kiss your sweet tender lips for real. You are my everything!”
Hart said that it indicated they used “using portals” to communicate with each other, even though they understood it wasn't real or true.
Aug. 11, 2019, Chad to Lori- “I will join you! Partly why I am so sad is my Boise trip has turned into a trip with extended family. Not happy about it.
Lori- “How much more of this can you take?”
Chad- “They want to go to Craters of the Moon National Park. I can’t take much more. So trapped.”
Lori- “R we supposed to wait forever?”
Hart said that Chad was on vacation with Tammy and other relatives.
The next slide continued the previous conversation.
Chad to Lori- “No, but the next two days will be torture. Thankfully, I will be alone most of Wednesday and beyond.”
Lori- “Is that what He wants. For me to sit around waiting for you endlessly. And you miserably wasting time? Is just doesn’t feel right!”
Chad- “I’m so frustrated, I’m sorry honey.
Lori- “U can’t just keep tearing my heart out. I really can’t take it anymore. I’m sorry."
Hart said that it was one month to the day after Charles' death. He said that the pressure Lori put on Chad for them to be together increased significantly.
More text messages.
Lori- “If you really loved me, u wouldn’t want that either.”
Lori- “U should give all of you love and attention to your wife and family. I’m just a distraction. Go have fun with your family. I really to want you to. I just can’t be in the way anymore. If things change then we can talk. but we have nothing until things change anyway.”
Chad- “Oh, honey. That is so crushing, I feel so destroyed inside. You know my love for you is deep and real. I want change, I’m constantly begging for change. I want you. Nothing else matters. But I am hindering your life, and you deserve better. I love you so intensely.”
Hart said that it is a clear indication of Lori wanting to be in a relationship out in the open with Chad.
Chad- “But I will leave you alone, as excruciating as that will be, until I hear from you.”
Lori- “U can’t say to me nothing else matters. Because everything is before me. If that’s what the Lord wants then I’m. I just need to do something else so I can pull myself out of this deep despair. It’s not like me to be this way. it’s been way too much for way too long.”
Lori- “The pain is unbearable.”
Hart said that showed Lori's impatience. He said that there was never any indication that Chad was going to get divorced from Tammy.
Chad to Lori- “You are right. Put me aside until things change. Yes, the pain is unbearable."
Lori- “R u going to threaten me that I’m unprotected for doing so?”
Chad- “Absolutely not. I’m so upset at the circumstances that I am demanding they protect you more than ever.”
Hart said that Lori's asking Chad if she was being threatened if she were to leave him alone was a nod to the previous text where Chad said that he didn't know if he could protect Lori anymore.
Lori to Chad- “I’m so alone without you!! It is devastating!!”
Chad- “I feel so alone too. We are surrounded by telestial relatives that are simply obstacles. I’m so sick of it!!”
Lori- “Me too!! What is it that you really want?”
Chad- “I want to be with you. That is my greatest hope and dream. I would happily join you tomorrow if it felt like heaven would not strike us down.”
Hart pointed out where Chad texted "We are surrounded by telestial relatives that are simply obstacles." Hart said that “telestial” referenced the lowest level or degree of glory of heaven in the LDS faith. So “telestial relatives” was a reference to people who were in the lowest level of heaven perceived.
Blake said that the "telestial relatives" were described as obstacles. Hart said yes.
Hart said Chad’s greatest desire was to be with Lori. Hart said that Chad told Lori he would immediately join her if he could.
The court took a break, when they were back, Prior began the cross-examination of Hart. Prior stated that Hart went over tens of thousands of messages through his investigation. Hart said yes. Prior asks if he ever reviewed messages between Lori and Melanie Gibb. Hart says yes.
Prior asks if any of the people in the messages he reviewed use nicknames. Hart said that Lori referred to herself as Lolo, Lily, and Chad referred to her as Elena.
Prior asked Hart if he remembered Gibb referring to herself as Phoebe. He said that it rang a bell, but he couldn't be sure. Hart said Alex was often called “Al”, Melani P was “Mel”, and Lori often called Chad “Bubby.”
Prior admitted an exhibit that showed previous text messages that had been displayed between Lori and Chad. Prior then had Hart read one message in particular sent from Chat to Lori.
“I want to be with you. That is my greatest hope and dream. I would happily join you tomorrow if it felt like heaven would not strike us down.”
Hart said that it sounded like Chad wanted his relationship with Lori to be known to everyone.
Hart testified that Lori and Chad’s relationship started the first time they met on October 31st, 2018, and that their physical relationship began in November, because Chad Daybell “wrote about it in great detail. Hart said that "They were kissing fondling in bed together, taking each other’s clothes off.” Hart confirmed he was referring to the James and Elena story that Chad wrote.
Prior asked Hart if he knew what Chad did for a living. Hart said yes and then confirmed that Chad was an author.
Hart testified that he believed that Chad's writings about James and Elena was a truthful and accurate story of Chad's relationship with Lori.
Prior asked Hart if he had gone back and read some of Chad's other writings. Hart said someone on the investigative team read Chad’s other books, but he personally did not. Hart said he understood that Chad had written about prior experiences in his life.
Prior discussed the Aug. 11th, 2019, text messages between Chad and Lori. Prior read the text, “I would happily join you tomorrow if it felt like heaven would not strike us down.” Prior told hard that that line had nothing to do with murder. Hart said he couldn't say that it didn't have anything to do with murder. He said he didn't know what was on Chad's mind. Prior said he didn't see anything throughout the text messages like, “Hey, this is Chad. Let’s kill the kids.”
Hart said there were several texts that talk in detail about the deaths of the kids. Hart said there were texts alluding to and planning for the deaths of Tylee and JJ. Hart explained that there were several text messages between Lori and Chad that referred to "a plan to take the children" and Chad's ability as a "suppose visionary" to understand when that might happen.
Prior said that "So there is no specific text message that talks about 'We're going to kill the kids and live happily ever after.'"
Hart disagreed. He said that contextually he thought that that was the meaning of those texts. He said that those texts talked about the deaths about Tylee and JJ, about the death percentage, and both Tylee and JJ ended up being murdered.
Prior asked Hart if he was referring to the text messages where Chad assigned death percentages to the children. Hart said yes. Hart said he believed the “dark number” provided justification for Chad and Lori to kill JJ and Tylee.
Prior had Hart read a line from a text message Chad sent to Lori. "Aly Bloomer is considered 4.1 dark. Her cop husband is three dark."
Prior asked if Aly and her husband were dead. Hart said no.
Prior asked if it "this" part of the LDS faith. Hart said no. Prior then asked Hart if there was reference to light and dark in the LDS faith. Hart said yes. Hart also said that he didn't think light and dark as assigned by Chad was part of the LDS faith. Prior asked Hart to explain how Chad’s light and dark scale worked. Hart said that he thought that the higher the number the worse it was.
Hart agreed that he thought Chad used his religious beliefs to manipulate Lori. He said that Chad was looked to as the visionary for the small group they were a part of and that he used that to keep Lori in a relationship with him. Hart said that the "inner circle" was Chad, Lori and Alex and that the “peripheral” members of the group would include six to ten people. Hart confirmed that Gibb, David Warwick, Zulema Pastenes, and Melani P. would be included in those "peripheral" members.
Prior said that Hart had said Lori wasn’t believing everything Chad was saying about religion. Hart said that was untrue and that he believed Lori believed “pretty much everything Chad Daybell said.”
Prior said that Chad started writing his books before he met Lori. Hart said yes. Prior said that Chad wrote books about a lot of religious issues. Hart said yes that most of Chad's books had to do with an "End of Times" theme.
Prior said that Chad would go to various places and try to sell his books and that is how he would predominantly try to make a living. Hart said agreed. Prior said that Chad would go to encampments, gatherings and locations that were primarily centered around Utah. Hart said no that it was St. George, Utah, Mesa, Arizona, and Boise. Hart agreed that they were predominantly sold to people of the LDS faith and market to people preparing for end of times.
Prior then asked if all the people that bought Chad's books were part of a cult. Hart said not to his knowledge. Hart agreed that Chad's audience for his books and speeches were varied.
Prior said that Gibbs, David, Warwick, Alex, Lori and Chad were all friends that talked about their religious experiences. Hart said yes.
Prior showed another text message that had been previously shown. He then asked Hart if when Lori texted that she was “just a distraction” and told Chad to “go have fun with your family” was sarcastic. Hart said he thought she was pushing Chad and that she had been serious.
Prior read, "If things changed, we can talk but we have nothing until things change."
Prior asked if it was fair to say that Lori basically said that unless Chad and Tammy got divorced, he killed Tammy, or Tammy died, he wouldn't “have her.” Hart agreed.
Prior then read, "I am constantly begging for change, but I am hindering your life, and you deserve better. I love you so intensely."
Prior asked Hart if there were ever any texts from Chad that said, “I agree with you Lori, let’s kill Tammy.” Hart said that he found numerous texts that talked about Tammy's death percentages.
Prior asked if Hart was aware that Chad had talked to public audiences since 2016 about the fact that Tammy was going to have a very short life. Hart said that he was aware that Chad had made those statements to particular individuals. Hart said that he wasn't sure the people that Chad spoke with knew Tammy.
Prior asked if the messages conveyed that Chad was waiting for Tammy to pass away. Hart said or it could have been waiting to take action.
Prior published more messages.
“Phoebe” (Gibb) to Lori- “I am doing pretty good thanks. I love you so much. I’m going to teach right now. Teaching about discerning and shutting off dark portals.
“Phoebe” (Gibb)-"I could see the darkness so clearing last night when I was teaching last night. Their eyes were dark like marbles.”
Prior asked Hart if the talk about dark portals or dark eyes like marbles was a part of the LDS faith. Hart said not to his knowledge.
Prior then told Hart that there were others that talked about putting numerical numbers one people who were light and dark. Hart said there was only one instance where Lori disputed a “dark or light” number given to somebody and that was the only time he was aware of someone else giving numbers on individuals.
Prior talked about how James and Elena were sealed. He then asked Hart what sealing was. Hart confirmed that it was a marriage ordinance in LDS temples and that the couple is sealing themselves to each other.
Prior had no further questions.
Blake was up for the re-direct. Blake asked Hart about the “sealing reference” and if he testified before that there were also sealings done for people who have passed away. Hart said yes.
Blake asked Hart if Chad had indicated that he and Lori would be married eternally. Hart said that was precisely what was written in Chad’s writing. Hart confirmed that the “light and dark” teaching originated from Chad. He agreed that those teachings were taught to Gibb.
Blake talked about the term “telestial relative.” Hart agreed that Chad said they were “obstacles.” Blake asked if Aly Bloomer was a telestial relative of Chad. Hart said no.
Blake asked if Charles Vallow, Tylee Ryan, JJ Vallow and Tammy Daybell were ever deemed dark. Hart said yes. Blake asked where those four relatives were. Hart said all four of those people are dead.
Blake had no further questions.
Sidney Woodbury Shank was the next witness called to the stand by the state. She was a babysitter Lori reportedly hired from Care.com in Arizona. she lived in Rexburg in 2019 as she was attending college at Brigham Young University-Idaho.
Wood asked if through Care.com did Shank ever met Lori. She said yes. Shank said that Lori reached out to her for babysitting, and she met Lori and JJ at Lori's town home on September 18, 2019. Shank said Lori mentioned that JJ had autism and that he had difficulty focusing at times, had behavioral difficulties, and required extra help. Lori also told her that they had just moved to Rexburg from Arizona, and that her husband had passed away from a heart attack, something JJ was struggling to understand.
Wood asked if Shank if Lori had ever mentioned Tylee. Lori never mentioned Tylee’s name but had said that she had a daughter living in town to go to college who would sometimes come home for dinner or to babysit and didn't like to babysit without getting paid.
Shank said she was hired and watched JJ for 3 to 4 hours the next day because Lori said she had to go pick up a friend. Shank said Lori told her what to feed JJ, some activities to do, and that if she got home late, she could give him some medication to help him sleep. Shank said JJ was playing with the neighbor kids the majority of the time. She said he was a “fun kid”. She said she fed him dinner before he went to the neighbors, and she went back to pick him up before Lori got home. Shank said that when Lori got home, she had her friend and her brother with her.
Shank said that she messaged Lori a couple days later to work for her again. Lori said JJ went with his grandparents for a month and she was in Hawaii for a month, but after the month had passed, she could call to reschedule another time to babysit. Shank said that called and texted Lori, but she never got a response back. Shank confirmed that Lori never mentioned Chad Daybell.
Wood had no further questions.
Prior began his cross. He asked Shank what time Lori had returned home. Shank said that it was 5 or 6 at night. Shank confirmed that it was a Thursday when she babysat. She also confirmed that Lori had told her about JJ's behavior problems and how to distract him.
Prior asked Shank when Lori left did anyone go with her. Shank said yes, her brother Alex did, and they left around 1pm. Prior asked Shank if she knew the name of the friend that they went to pick up. Shank confirmed that she didn't know the name of the friend but did see her, and that she thought she was a blonde. Shank said the friend came in and didn’t have any luggage with her.
Prior asked about JJ's behavioral problems she witnessed. Shank said JJ kind of freaked out when they came home from the neighbors, and he threw an ottoman and a chair down before running upstairs “wanting space.” She said she heard something fall and when she checked on JJ, he had thrown a mirror on the ground and broke it.
Shank confirmed that when JJ was over to his friend's house, they got into an argument about sharing a toy.
Shank confirmed that the only people she saw at Lori's house that day was the friend Lori picked up from the airport, Lori and Alex.
Shank said that Lori was “too comforting" to JJ and didn’t try to correct his behavior. Shank said that “To me, throwing chairs and breaking stuff isn’t an appropriate behavior. Instead of correcting that, she was just emotionally there for him and being very sweet and kind to him.” Shank thought was it was inappropriate.
Prior asked if she ever heard the people at the house use the word “zombie” to describe JJ’s behavior. Shank said no.
Prior had no more questions.
Deputy Attorney General Ingrid Batey questioned Wilson for the prosecution.
Wilson said that JJ was enrolled at the school at the beginning of September 2019. JJ's first day of school was Sept. 3 and Lori was there to enroll him. Wilson said that Lori told him that they had just moved from Arizona after her husband died of a heart attack, so they were moving to Rexburg to be closer to family. Wilson said that JJ was enrolled at Kennedy Elementary for three weeks and his last day was September 21st.
Wilson said that they tried to contact Lori to finish JJ’s special needs assessments, but she informed them that JJ was moving to Louisiana. Wilson said that he told her to have the new school request for JJ’s records, and they would pass them on. Lori told him that they were going to homeschool JJ. Wilson said they would keep JJ’s records if they ever chose to enroll him in public school again. Wilson confirmed that the never received a request for JJ's records.
Batey had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. He asked Wilson if he communicated over the phone with Lori. Wilson said yes. Wilson said that Lori never mentioned Chad, and he never saw or heard anything about him.
Prior had no further questions.
Hill confirmed that he was contacted by police in February 2020 to do a records check on Tylee. He said that she was not a student at the time, and they had no record her. She never even applied to the school.
Batey had no further questions.
It was Prior's turn to question Hill. Hill confirmed that he never talked to Lori, never discussed an application for Tylee, and never heard of Chad.
Prior had no further questions.
Colby testified that his five siblings are Cole, Zach, Tylee, and JJ. He said that Cole and Zach are his stepbrothers through Charles Vallow.
Wood showed a photo of Tylee. Wood then asked about the person in the photo, Colby became emotional before revealing, "That's my sister, Tylee." Colby said that she was his half-sister on their mom’s side.
Wood then published a photo of JJ. He then asked Colby who was it a picture of. Colby became emotional once more, stating his brother JJ. He said that he was adopted. Colby said Charles Vallow was his stepfather and had been married to Lori for over 10 years. “He was my dad. It was good.” Colby confirmed that he was close to him.
Wood asked Colby if he recalled when Charles passed away. Colby said yes, it was July 11th, 2019. He mentioned that Lori called him between 1 and 3 o'clock, informing him of Charles's death due to a heart attack. Colby confirmed he had no reason to not believe that was how he passed away.
Colby testified that he visited Lori's house in Gilbert, Arizona around 7:30/7:45 p.m. on the day that Charles passed away. Colby said, “Tylee opened the door and hugged me, and she was crying. I saw my Uncle Alex sitting on the couch with a bandage around his head, and then I saw my mom in the backyard.”
Colby said he asked Alex what was on his head, and Alex told him that Charles had hit him in the head with a bat, so he shot him in self-defense.
Wood asked Colby what Lori’s demeanor was like. Colby said that Lori was “calm and unrattled.” Colby said he thought it was crazy because he was freaking out, and she seemed to no care. Colby said that Lori told him that there was a fight. Colby said that he was in shock so he couldn't remember exactly what she said. He said that she gave him a very quick version of the story. He testified that he didn't know why his mom had lied to him earlier.
Wood asked Colby if he ever talked to Lori about Charles' life insurance policy. Colby said yes, he talked to Lori about Charles' life insurance policy when he was growing up, so he would know what would happen if either Lori or Charles died. Colby said a few weeks after Charles died, Lori told him that she was not going to receive any money. Wood asked him if it was his understand that Lori was expecting the money. Colby said yes.
Wood asked Colby if when Charles was alive, did he get to speak to Lori about Charles' finances. Colby said Lori informed him about hers and Charles’ finances, and that they were “running low.” Colby agreed that it was a common theme that they were running out of money.
Wood asked Colby if he knew who Tylee's father was. Colby said yes, Joseph Ryan. Wood asked Colby if Joseph Ryan was his biological father. Colby said no and confirmed that he took his last name. Colby said that Joseph was died in the summer of 2018.
Wood asked Colby if he was aware that Tylee received Social Security benefits after Joseph passed away. Colby said yes Lori told him. Colby said that Lori said that she received money monthly.
Wood asked Colby if he ever received money from Tylee. He said yes, she would often send him money via Venmo. He said he had asked Tylee a couple times, but it was mostly Lori asking on Colby's behalf.
Wood asked Colby when the last time he saw Tylee. He said it was August 30, 2019, outside of a gym in the parking lot in Mesa, Arizona. Colby said that Lori was very vague, and she was leaving. She brought JJ and Tylee and Tylee was crying. Colby said that he hugged JJ and Lori told him that they would be back in a few weeks to visit. Colby said she wouldn't tell him where they were going even after he asked.
Wood asked Colby if he exchanged texts with Tylee on September 8th, 2019. Colby said he thought he asked her to send money. He didn't remember exactly what she said, but he did remember that the last text he received from Tylee said, “I love you, and I love the girls.”
Colby testified that he had heard her earlier that day in the background when he was on the phone with his mom. He said he heard something about them being on a trip. He said Lori told him that they were at Yellowstone.
Wood asked Colby if he ever had a conversation after Charles' death about Tylee's SS money. Colby said yes. He said that Lori said that Tylee's money was going to be everyone's money. Colby asked Lori how she was going to take care of JJ and Tylee, and she said she was going to work and use Tylee’s SS money to make it through.
Colby confirmed that August 30th of 2019 was the last time he saw JJ and Tylee.
Wood asked Colby if he was contacted by the Gilbert police on November 27th, 2019. Colby said that they came to his door looking for Tylee and JJ. He told them he didn't know where they were.
Wood asked if he had been concerned about Tylee. Colby said that he was concerned about Tylee because their conversations were “not normal.” He said that the dialect in her texts weren't matching up the way she spoke. He said she wasn't contacting him like she use to and thought she was upset, but he didn't want to pressure her because he knew she had been through a lot.
Colby testified that the last time he spoke with Tylee as on August 30th with JJ on Facetime.
Wood asked Colby if he continued to get text messages from Tylee throughout September of 2019. He said yes and confirmed that those were the messages he felt were different.
Colby testified that he received Venmo from Tylee a couple more times after he saw her for the last time as well as money from Lori on Cash App. He said the money kept getting denied because it was a new account. Colby said he didn’t ask for the money; it was just sent.
Wood asked Colby if he talked with Lori after Charles died about her getting married again. Colby said yes and that his mom told him “I’ll be married again soon.” He said he disregarded her and told her that was crazy. He thought she might had been talking about getting married in the next life. Colby confirmed that she never mentioned the name Chad Daybell to him. Colby said that Lori said she had been becoming “spiritual” for a long time and Colby knew that she was spending a lot of time with Melanie Gibb.
Wood asked Colby if he had contacted Lori after the police had been there on November 27th. He said yes, immediately after they left. He asked her what was going on and why did the cops ask him where JJ and Tylee were. Colby said that Lori told him that she would take care of it but did not tell him where they were. Colby didn't know where Lori was either.
Colby testified that he had tried to call Lori on Thanksgiving, but she did not respond. He said that a couple of weeks later she sent him an email, telling him everything was fine and that she “had Jesus on her side.”
Wood was done with his questioning.
Prior was up for the defense. He asked Colby about the money he got from Tylee and Lori in 2018 and 2019. Colby said that he was getting money because he had children of his own and needed help. Prior said that Tylee had helped Colby out because she was a very caring person. Colby said absolutely. Prior said that Tylee was a very kind person. Colby said yep. Prior asked if Tylee was more of a mother figure to JJ than Lori was. Colby said that Tylee was his big sister. Prior said that Tylee was very protective of JJ and understood him better than almost anybody. Colby said that she loved him. Prior said that JJ had a lot of challenges as a seven-year-old autistic child. Colby confirmed. Prior said that Tylee was the kindest, most gentil and most caring of the siblings to JJ. Colby replied, “Sure.”
Colby confirmed that Lori had called him to let him know that Charles had died. He also confirmed that she hadn't told him that Alex had gunned Charles down and that she had lied to him and said that it was a heart attack. Colby said Lori lied to a lot of people.
Prior asked Colby if Melanie Gibb had lied to him too. Colby said that he didn't walk to Gibb. Prior asked Colby if Lori and Gibb were best of friends. Colby said, "You could say that." Colby testified he didn't know how Lori and Gibb became friends. He said that Gibb showed up to their Christmas party in 2018 as Lori's friend.
Colby testified that he was in the middle of his workday at Anytime Fitness when Lori called him and told him that Charles had died of a heart attack. He confirmed that there was no mention of self-defense.
Prior asked Colby if Tylee was there when Charles was shot and that she was implicated. Colby said yes. He confirmed that from what he understood Tylee was there for the whole altercation.
Prior asked Colby if he was aware that Lori had received a sizeable life insurance policy from Joseph Ryan. Colby said that he heard that later on.
Prior asked Colby if Charles was the primary financer for the expenses. Colby said yes. Colby confirmed that when there was financial issues Lori had put it all on Charles' shoulders.
Colby confirmed that he talked with Tylee at least once a month via text for the last couple of years. He said that when they lived in the same place, he'd see them more frequently. He confirmed that when he saw Tylee JJ was usually there.
Colby confirmed that he last saw Tylee and JJ was on August 30th in Mesa, Arizona and that Tylee was upset. Colby confirmed that he also talked to them on Facetime later that evening.
Colby confirmed that he talked to Lori in late November after the police had showed up. Prior said that Colby's mother lied to him again. Colby said yes. Prior asked if there was any indication that Melanie Gibb was there. Colby said no.
Prior asked Colby if Lori had a strong personality. Colby answered yes. Prior then said that Lori was the kind of a person that nobody could tell her what to do. Colby said not necessarily. Prior asked Colby if his mother was a person that would speak her mind. Colby said not necessarily.
Prior asked Colby if he got to observe the way that Lori interacted with her friends, such as Gibb. Colby said yes. Prior asked Colby if Lori was a wallflower. Colby said that Lori did not like confrontation.
Prior asked Colby if when he talked to Lori in late November, did she tell him that JJ had been with Gibb. Colby said no.
Prior was done with his questions.
Wood was up for the re-direct. He asked Colby if Lori could be influenced. Colby said yes. Wood then asked Colby if Lori was influenced by Chad. Colby said yes 100 percent.
Wood had no further questions.
Prior came back with a re-cross. He said Colby had never heard of Chad in August of 2019. Colby said that was correct. Prior asked if when Lori said she would be "married again soon", did Colby know she had talked about Chad. Colby said he did not.
Colby said that he had found out that Lori was married from a press release and that the kids were missing.
Prior had nothing further.
Fremont County Deputy Prosecutor Rocky Wixom did the questioning. Warwick testified that He says Chad reached out to him for the first time to do a book in 2015. Warwick said he told Chad that he needed to think about it. Warwick said he decided not to do a book with Chad. Warwick said that Chad continued to reach out to him 3 or 4 times over the year to for help with the book, but Warwick kept telling him no.
Wixom asked Warwick when it was, he had personal contact with Chad. Warwick said that he first met Chad in 2015 in Rigby, Idaho, at a meeting to talk about priesthood power and the darkness that was taking over the world. Warwick said that he attended the meeting because the host, John Miller, reached out to him and asked him to go. Warwick mentioned that he was unfamiliar with most of the attendees; he only recognized Chad, John Miller, Larry Hilton, Tom Harrison, Bob Walker, and Hector Sosa. Chad asked Warwick to leave the meeting and go to his home with him. He said told Warwick that Julie Rowe was going to be there. Warwick said he didn’t want to go, but eventually went with him “out of respect.” Warwick said they walked around Chad’s property with Julie Rowe, who talked about how to set up his yard for "preparations." Warwick said that it was his understand that Rowe had visions.
Wixom asked Warrick if ever got to meet Chad's wife. Warrick said yes. He said that he met Tammy in Chad's living room that night he was at the house with Rowe. Wixom asked Warrick if Tammy participated or walked around the property. Warrick said no.
Warwick testified that he saw Chad next in 2017 at a conference in Brigham City, Utah, where he was asked to speak. Warwick said Chad was and had always been “very kind, very meek.”
Warwick said he then saw Chad in August 2019 at Lori’s house in Arizona. Warwick was with Gibb and was invited to Lori’s house to meet friends. He said Chad, Lori, Melani P., Alex, Zulema, and a woman named Julie were there. He said that Chad and Lori were talking about the gathering of the 144,000 and that they were responsible to gather them, and it was their calling. He said that they all talked about the special gifts they were given, their multiple lives and experiences in those lives. Warwick said that Zulema had the power over the elements and the earth and “having to be in certain places at certain times to facilitate whatever god was doing.” Warwick said that Alex was told he was an angel referenced in the Book of Mormon. Warwick said that Alex felt good that he was a good guy.
Warwick said that he told Chad that if someone was going to call the 144,000, it would have to be done by a prophet of God. Warwick confirmed that he did not believe that Chad was a prophet. Warwick confirmed that he disagreed with what was said at the meeting, such as Satan having the power to push people out of their bodies and take possession of them, and the person’s spirit being stuck in limbo because their body was still alive. Warick said he told Chad that Satan would never have done that, and God put a boundary there so he couldn't. Warwick said that Chad and Lori seemed really close during the meeting.
Warwick said he also saw Chad in September 2019 at Lori’s apartment in Rexburg to do a podcast with Lori and Gibb, and Chad came over. Warwick said he stayed at Lori’s for four days. He said that JJ was also present. He said that he tried to interact with JJ a few times when he was sitting on the couch playing his games.
Warwick said that he has a son with autism and Down syndrome.
Warwick said that again tried to talk with JJ, who was cutting windows and doors into a cardboard box to make a toy house, but JJ wouldn't speak to him.
Warwick said that Chad came three or four times, that he was kind of in and out and would only stay for a half an hour to an hour.
Warwick said while he was there, he talked to Chad about his relationship with Lori, that they had past lives together and they had a mission to do together, which was to gather the 144,000. They also had told him that they could see “terrestrial buildings” on Earth. Warwick said that they told him to go on a Sunday to a park near a church and that they would "show it to him".
Warwick said that they walked around the park, and Lori and Chad described a “terrestrial building” that was there made of stone with arches. Warwick said that he didn't see anything but a beautiful park. Warwick said Chad and Lori talked like they thought the building was actually there, but he didn't feel any truth in it.
Warwick said that that weekend he talked to Chad about his teachings. He said that he told Chad that he didn’t believe evil spirits had the same power Chad was saying they did and that he really didn't accept their beliefs.
Warwick testified that it bothered him that Chad was affectionate with Lori when he was still married to Tammy. He said he confronted Chad about it. Warwick said that Chad told him that Tammy was a good wife and mother, but Lori was going to be his next wife and they were going to go fulfill the mission together. Chad also had told him that he had a dream that Tammy was going to be passing by the time he was 50 or 51. Warwick said that that made him uncomfortable.
Warwick said that that weekend Chad had said that there was an 80-acre property for sale over by his home that he thought would be good for Warwick's associate to buy. Warwick told Chad that he didn't do business on Sunday, but he'd drive by and look at it, so he followed Alex over to the property. Warwick said that Chad and a guy who he served with a church, a realtor named Ron, showed up. Warwick said that Chad wanted Ron to meet him. Ron wanted to draw up the papers and Warwick said he told Ron just to email them to him. After they talked Warwick went back to Lori's place.
Wixom asked Warwick if any time during that weekend Chad told him that he had a role in the 144,000. Warwick said yes, Chad told him that he was to assist in the gathering of the 144,000. Warwick said that was when he told Chad that would be a call that would come from a prophet and that his life is not in order to do something like that.
The court took a break. When they came back, Wixom asked Warwick about what happened after he returned to Lori's place after looking at the property. Warwick said he saw JJ upon their return. He mentioned that the final time he observed JJ was around 10 or 10:30 p.m. that night, he was asleep and being held by Alex as he took him upstairs to bed.
Warwick mentioned that Gibb, Lori, and he were present to record a podcast in Lori's kitchen, while Chad was absent.
Warwick stated that he went to bed around 11 or 11:30 p.m. that night. He confirmed that at no point did he see Tylee during the four days of his visit.
The following day, upon waking, Warwick said Lori was in the kitchen, and she was being “a little dramatic.” Warwick told her they were leaving, and he wanted to say goodbye to JJ, but Lori said he was “out of control and she had to have Alex come and get him.” Warwick said Lori was “talking fast” and acted nervous, saying JJ climbed on top of the cabinets in the fridge and climbed on top of the upper cabinets. Warwick said that Lori had told him that JJ had pushed a picture of Jesus off the wall. Warwick didn’t believe it because there were no scuffs or damage to the cabinets. Warwick said that Lori told him that JJ was “having a possession attack” and she couldn’t handle it. Warwick told Lori that he'd really like to see him, and she told Warwick no and that Alex had him and was taking care of him.
Wixom was done with the questioning.
Prior was up for the cross. He asked Warwick when it was that he got married to Gibb. Warwick said that they were married on December 10, 2020. He said that they had met at a conference at the University of Utah between 2012 and 2014 and then began dating in August of 2019.
Prior said that Warwick was uncomfortable when he saw Chad being affectionate with Lori during his marriage to Tammy. Warwick said that what Chad was preaching didn’t match up with how he was acting. Prior said that Warwick was dating Gibb when he was still married. Warwick said that the divorce was being finalized.
Prior asked Warwick what he knows about an organization called the Seven Gatherers. Warwick said he didn't know anything about it.
Prior asked if it was fair to say that Warwick if he and Gibb went to various camps and conferences and spoke on religious beliefs. Warwick said yes. Warwick said he speaks about his conversion to Christ and his church and the gifts, dreams and visions that came afterwards.
Warwick said that the purpose of the fireside chats was to help inspire people to seek God, his truth in relationship with the Holy Ghost bearing witness of that truth.
Prior asked Warwick if he has had visions about being invaded by foreign powers. Warwick said yes.
Warwick said he spoke about the visions when it felt right in his heart.
Prior asked Warwick to talk more about his visions and how they were only a small part of what he lectured about. Warwick agreed his visions were consistent with his LDS faith. Prior asked if Chad had visions and if it would be consistent with his faith. Warwick said it would be.
Prior asked about vibrations in a religious context and what it means. Warwick said yes. Prior asked Warwick if he had participated in meetings or gatherings that dealt with the subject of vibrations. Warwick said no. Prior asked if Gibb had talked about vibrations at conferences. Warwick said no.
Warwick said that Gibb’s expertise is in belief and “overcoming non-belief.” He said that her talks were about health and foot reflexology and teach about the body. Warwick said that a lot of her teaching he has never seen before because most of it happened before they met.
Warwick said that he unofficially met Gibb years before they actually met and began dating.
Prior asked about preparedness camps that Warwick and Gibb attended. Warwick said the camps taught different ways to be self-reliant in ways like growing food and conserving energy. Warwick said that he would talk about his visions at the firesides.
Prior asked about Warwick’s “predictions,” and Warwick corrected him and said that he was told about things that will happen, he didn’t create them.
Prior asked Warwick about “light and dark” and if they are synonymous with the words “good and evil.” Warwick agreed.
Prior asked about “portals” and if Gibb taught about them. He said he didn’t know, he never heard her teach.
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