On June 9, 2020, the remains of 16-year-old Tylee Ryan and 7 year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow were found buried on Chad's property. He attempted to flee and was arrested and charged with two felony counts of conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence, and two felony counts of destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence.
The point of his preliminary hearing was to prove to Eddins whether or not there was enough evidence to send Daybell's case to trial. If Eddins did decided there was enough evidence an arraignment would be scheduled where Daybell would enter a plea of not guilty or guilty. If he plead not guilty, then Daybell would got to trial. If he plead guilty then he would have a sentencing hearing.
Back in March, Judge, Faren Eddins lowered Daybell's wife, Lori’s bond in her case from $5 million to $1 million. Lori’s lawyers’ request that Eddin's removed himself from her case, which he did.
Judge Faren Eddins claimed that Idaho’s law allows the lawyers to ask a judge to “disqualify a judge, without reason, without cause, just because.”
During the prelim, Madison County Prosecuting Attorney Rob Wood called witnesses and presented evidence.
Wood served a tour of duty in Iraq with the United States Army in 2005. He Studied Geology at BYU-Idaho. In May of 2009 he graduated from the University of Idaho College of Law. Wood worked on the Coeur d’Alene Indian Reservation during law school as a Court Appointed Special Advocate in child custody cases. He joined the Rigby Andrus Rigby Law Firm in August of 2009. In July of 2014, Wood became the deputy prosecutor of Madison County. On January 13th, 2020, Wood was sworn in as the prosecuting attorney.
9:10 a.m.-The preliminary hearing began
Daybell's attorney is John Prior. Back in 2012 Prior was sentenced to 120 days for battery for sexually assaulting woman seeking employment and legal advice.
9:15 a.m.-First witness was called.
Rexburg Police Detective Ray Hermosillo has been investigating the case since JJ and Tylee were first reported missing and has worked as a police officer for 19 years.
In 2016 Hermosillo was accused of being racist. On Instagram he quoted “hands up, don’t shoot,” the rallying cry of many Black Lives Matter protesters in reference to Michael Brown, a young black man who was shot and killed by a white officer in August 2014 in Ferguson, Mo. He then responded with “how about ‘pants up, don’t loot.’” He also was reported to have reposted the meme with hashtags “police lives matter” and “truth” as well as one hashtag too vulgar that i can't find out what is was.
Back to the prelim
East Idaho News
Det. Ray Hermosillo testifies at Chad Daybell's preliminary hearing.
Hermosillo said that in early November of 2019 he was sent by the Gilbert Police Department to seize a Jeep that was in Lori’s possession.
(I presume it was the jeep was the one that belonged to Lori's ex and deceased husband, Charles Vallow. Charles' was allegedly shot and killed by Alex in Lori's home as "self defense.")
In court, Wood then introduced the birth certificate and adoption records of JJ whose name was Canaan Trahan before the adoption. He also introduced Tylee's birth certificate whose dad was Joseph Ryan.
(Joseph Ryan was also a deceased ex husband of Lori's. He allegedly died of natural causes.) Then Wood introduced Daybell and Lori's marriage certificate which showed that their date of marriage was November 5th.
Daybell and Alex Cox were the only ones at Lori's house.
Alex Cox was one of Lori's brothers. He died in December of 2019 from a pulmonary embolism, a condition that causes one or more arteries in the lungs to become blocked by a blood clot
When asked where Lori was, Daybell acted as if he didn’t know her very well and stated he didn’t know her phone number. (This is funny because Daybell and Lori were already married.) Daybell was also asked where JJ was. Daybell said that he last saw JJ in Apt. 107 (Alex Cox’s home) in October.
When Alex was asked for Lori's whereabouts he said that he didn't know either nor did he have her number. He then was asked where JJ was.
Alex stated that JJ was with his grandma, Kay Woodcock, in Louisiana. (Another lie because Kay was the individual who first called in and reported JJ missing to the Gilbert Police Department.)
Besides being JJ's grandmother, she is also Charles' sister
Daybell finally gave Hermosillo Lori’s phone number. When Hermosillo asked why he didn’t provide the number earlier, Daybell said it was because it sounded like he was being accused of something.
Other officers were called and Hermosillo called Lt. Ron Ball. Ball told him he needed to get a search warrant. JJ was never located that day.
Hermosillo said that on Nov. 27, 2019, a search warrant was obtained for apartments 175, 174 and 107. These were rented to Lori Vallow, Alex Cox and Melani Boudreaux.
Melani Boudreaux is Lori's niece. Melani's mother, Lori's sister, is deceased as well. After her mother's death, Melani began spending a lot of time with Lori and considers Lori a mother figure.
Back to the Warrant.
The warrant was for JJ's disappearance.(They had no idea about Tylee's disappearance yet.)
In Lori's unit, police found a suitcase and a half-filled prescription bottle of pills, both with JJ’s name on them. There was no clothing in the closets or dresser drawers. Alex's unit was empty.
Hermosillo also received a search warrant for a storage unit that Lori had rented. Inside they found old winter clothes and blankets with JJ and Tylee on them. Hermosillo said they tried to contact family members to see where JJ was and that is when the FBI was brought in.
Hermosillo said Lori and Daybell never called the Rexburg Police to report missing children. Daybell never returned any calls from police and Lori never answered her phone. They then lawyered up and refused to answer questions.
Hermosillo said that after talking with Colby Ryan(Lori's son and Tylee's half brother), police began looking for Tylee.
Wood admitted a photo of JJ, Tylee and Alex Cox at Yellowstone National Park on September 8th, 2019. That sadly would be the last known photo of Tylee and that would be the last time she was publicly seen.
Wood then admitted another photo from Lori’s I-cloud account showing JJ sitting on a couch on September 22nd, 2019, which is thought to be the last photo of him and was also the last date of his public sighting.
Hermosillo said he went to Kauai in January of 2020 and served Lori with an order demanding she produce her kids in Rexburg within 5 days. Hermosillo said a search warrant was also issued on Lori’s rental vehicle and their rental townhouse.
Hermosillo said that he went back to Kauai in the middle of February and served Lori with an arrest warrant on the 20th.
Hermosillo also said he went to Daybell’s house in Fremont County, Idaho to serve a search warrant on June 9th. Hermosillo said when Daybell was served the search warrant, he was told he would need an officer to stay with him or he could leave the home. Daybell then went and sat in his vehicle in the driveway after calling his attorney. While sitting in his vehicle, Daybell was on the phone and would repeatedly look over his right shoulder. Daybell then got out of his vehicle at one point and Hermosillo went to stand by him. Hermosillo said from where Daybell was standing, looking over his shoulder one would see the pond area on his property. (By the pond is where JJ's body would be found.)
Hermosillo said the FBI Evidence Recovery Team arrived at Chad’s house around 9 a.m. The team and cadaver dogs worked the entire backyard. Areas were marked off and an area of interest was found right under the tree by the pond. Under the tree, there was a 4×2 area of sod/shorter grass in an area of longer weed growth. The 4×2 area stuck out based on the greenery around it. The ERT team began digging and methodically remove dirt.
As the team was digging they discovered a row of three large white rocks. The rocks were removed and underneath was some thin wood paneling. Then the paneling was removed and Hermosillo said he could smell the odor of a decomposing body. Hermosillo said he has been around deceased bodies on multiple occasions. In the last 19 years, he’s covered plenty of suicides and unattended deaths where the bodies were decomposing. Hermosillo said he recognized a similar smell once the wood paneling was removed. The ERT team moved away more soil from the area and there was a black plastic bag with a round object protruding through the dirt.
Hermosillo Describing Finding JJ's Body.
Underneath the black plastic there was white plastic and the crown of a head was exposed. A small body tightly wrapped in black plastic covered in duct tape was then discovered. The body was placed into the back of the coroner’s vehicle. The coroner brought the body to Madison Memorial Hospital where it was placed in the morgue.
Hermosillo said he assisted Sgt. Wheeler in placing Chad Daybell into custody.
Hermosillo Describing Finding Tylee's Remains.
Hermosillo said he helped excavate north of the “pet cemetery” in Chad’s yard and that there was a dog and cat buried there. Around 1 p.m., the FBI Evidence Recovery Team found a mass of burned flesh and bone in the pet cemetery. The team removed the mass from the ground and placed it in the back of the coroner’s vehicle. Hermosillo said there was a melted green bucket that the burned flesh had been placed in and under the bucket was a partial human skull. The remains were placed into a bag and put into the coroner’s vehicle.
Hermosillo said security guards were placed at the property and the search would continue the next day. Then Hermosillo and other officers went to Madison Memorial Hospital to pick up the body and they then went to Boise with the remains for autopsy.
Hermosillo describes JJ's autopsy.
Hermosillo was in the room with other officials as the Medical Examiner grabbed a sharp instrument and cut down the middle of the black plastic bag. Hermosillo said he observed a small child in red pajamas along with Skechers socks. A white and blue blanket had been placed on top of him. Hermosillo said the amount of duct tape covering the the head, arms and feet was noticeable. The head had a white plastic trash bag over it. Several layers of duct tape was tightly wrapped around from the chin to forehead ahead.
Duct tape covered the child’s mouth and the hands were folded about chest high. And then Hermosillo went on to say “he had a ball of duct tape over where his hands would be.” Hermosillo said the child was JJ Vallow and his wrists were bound with duct tape as well as his ankles. Hermosillo said he observed the second autopsy with charred flesh and bone later that afternoon.
John Prior then began questioning Hermosillo.
Hermosillo said he spoke with Melani Boudreaux on December 3rd, 2019. He was asked her about where JJ and Tylee were and that the police were significantly concerned about their whereabouts.
Prior then asked Hermosillo about his conversation with Chad on November 26th and how Hermosillo claimed that Chad said he didn't know Lori. Prior asked if it possible Chad said he didn’t know Lori as well as Alex. Hermosillo said that’s not possible. Prior asked Hermosillo if he recalled every single date and time in the investigation. Hermosillo replied no.
Prior asked about JJ’s school record. Hermosillo says police originally believed JJ last went to school on September 23rd, 2019.
Prior then asked about Lori's apartment. Hermosillo said Lori lived in unit 175. Prior asks Hermosillo about surveillance and Hermosillo said it was not recorded. Hermosillo says around 15-20 hours of surveillance was done at the complex.
Prior asked Hermosillo about the remains found on Chad's property.
Hermosillo said remains found in pond area were around 6-8 inches in the ground. “Shallow.” Hermosillo says there was a statue of a dog at the “pet cemetery” and there was a circular fire pit.
Prior asked about the homes near Daybell’s property. Hermosillo says there is a residence kiddy-corner from the Daybell’s residence – where Emma, Chad’s daughter, lived at one point. Prior stated there are 5 residences around the Daybell property.
Prior finished his questioning with asking Hermosillo who he has interviewed and what interviews were recorded.
Wood said he also had no further questions for Hermosillo.
1:05 p.m.- The second witness was called.
Ron Ball has been a police officer for over 28 years. He is the lieutenant over investigations. In 2016, he had the opportunity to take part in specialized law enforcement training at the FBI National Academy program in Quantico, Virginia.
East Idaho News
Rexburg Police Det. Ron Ball testifies at Chad Daybell's preliminary hearing
Ball says he was at Chad Daybell’s home when the remains of the children were found. He was also there for the autopsies and accompanied the remains to the state lab in Boise with other officers. When they arrived in Boise, the remains and the packaging was in the same condition as when officers left Rexburg.
Wood admitted several exhibits into the record.
Wood then was done questioning Ball. Prior began asking questions about where the evidence swabs were obtained, who transported evidence and when the evidence was transported. Prior says he had no further questions.
At 1:35 p.m. the third witness was called to the stand.
Rexburg Police Det. David Stubbs has been a detective since 2000 and has worked for the Rexburg Police Department for 25 years. Stubbs has training in technology and internet crimes against children. He first became involved in the case when RPD was asked to locate a vehicle that police in Arizona were interested in. Stubbs said he has met Lori and Chad.
East Idaho News
Rexburg Police Det. David Stubbs testifies at Chad Daybell's preliminary hearing
Stubbs talked about first meeting Lori on November 26th, 2019 while he was performing a welfare check on JJ Vallow. Stubbs was wearing a body camera and it recorded his interaction with Lori. Stubbs met with Lori twice the same day to inquire about her son. The body camera footage was admitted into court.
The body camera footage from Stubbs was played. Stubbs began describing the video. He said that along with his partner approach Lori Vallow’s home.
“Her car is out there too. In the back, blue, blue Subaru.” Then a knock on the door is heard. Lori answered the door and Ball introduced himself and asked if she had a minute. Ball also asked Lori if she was alone. Lori responded that her brother was there. Ball then introduced Stubbs.
Lori said that she talked to a guy on the phone bout the welfare check. She said that the whole thing was a mess. She then claimed JJ was in Arizona with her friend Melanie Gibb. She said Melanie’s son has autism. Lori then said, “What is all this?” Ball said that the officers that were there earlier “had a bad vibe” and that "nobody knew anything about a child, they weren't talking." Lori said one of her brothers(Adam) was in on a plan with her husband (She meant Charles, even though Chad was her husband at this time) to kill her for a two million dollar life insurance. Lori claimed that she had to move around a lot because of this. She also said that she wanted to move back to Arizona because things weren't going well for JJ in Idaho. Lori said JJ went to school for two months but had a hard time.
Lori said the person who called the police (Kay) has been “fighting her” since Charles died. Lori then went on a rant about how before he died Charles switched is life insurance policy over to Kay. Lori also said that she did everything that she was supposed to do for the kids that her and Charles had raised and she didn't know why people were hounding her.
Lori claimed that Tylee was going to BYU Idaho and that she lived at home.
Ball said two detectives came earlier and were talking with two guys. Lori says it was her brother, Alex Cox, and Alex’s friend, Chad Daybell. She said that Daybell was an author. Ball then asked Lori if Daybell had a wife die recently. Lori said that Daybell had a lot of kids.
Lori said people were constantly knocking at her door and she doesn’t want to be found. She said her brother from Kansas was trying to kill her and he showed up at her Rexburg home. Lori said she was going to moving back to Arizona to live with her friend Melanie.(Melanie Gibb, not Lori's sister) She also said she canceled her insurance policy and had no money. Stubbs and Ball then left Lori's house.
Stubbs said officers returned a short time later when Melanie Gibb could not be contacted. Body camera footage from the second visit to Lori’s home was then played. Ball knocked on Lori’s door and Lori said Melanie was at “Frozen 2” with her kids. Police asked Lori to call Melanie to tell her to call them back, which Lori agreed to do. She laughs that she doesn’t know if she could live in Rexburg a whole year because of the cold weather.
Wood asked Stubbs about his experience tracking cell phones and using cell phone data. Wood then inquires if he’s ever met Alex Cox. He replied that he didn't know Alex but knew he was related to Lori and that Alex was now dead. Stubbs said he was interested in Alex’s Google data because police knew he lived in an apartment close to Lori. He also believed Alex may have information about where the children could be. He said a search warrant was issued on Alex’s devices.
Wood then asked Stubbs about Google data obtained in their search warrants on Alex Cox’s account. Stubbs said Alex’s email address was homerjmaximus@gmail.com. Stubbs said detectives obtained thousands and thousands of pages from Google from Alex’s account.
Stubbs said he took dates and times of interest and, using GPS points and time-date stamps, he placed pins on a map to show Alex’s locations.
Stubbs then talked about an overhead image that showed Daybell’s property with marks signifying different things on the property.
Stubbs then talked about an overhead GIS mapping image of the townhome complex where Lori and Alex lived in Rexburg. The images were from September 9th, September 14th and September 6th. The image were admitted into evidence.
Stubbs described an aerial photograph taken over Lori’s apartment complex with markings that represent different reference points regarding the case.
Stubbs talked about time stamps on data from Google related to Alex’s account.
Wood then asked Stubbs to describe timestamps from when Alex’s phone was at different locations on particular dates. The device was at Lori’s home and then was located at Daybell’s property. Stubbs said there were additional data points in the area tied to Alex’s account but he did not map them out because the files were so massive he couldn't imagine how long it would take to map them all out. Wood was done with questions.
Prior began his cross-examination.
Prior asked Stubbs if was department policy to always wear a body camera. Stubbs said that it was not required but because he always turns it on when he is out. Stubbs recorded the two encounters with Lori.
Stubbs said he was working with the FBI to get more specific data on Alex’s phone. Prior asked Stubbs if he had any body camera footage of him talking with Daybell. Stubbs said any video has been provided to Wood. Prior has no further questions.
At 3:15 p.m a fourth witness was called.
Wynn Hill is the BYU-Idaho dean of students.
East Idaho News
BYU-Idaho Dean of Students Wynn Hill testifies during Chad Daybell preliminary hearing
Spencer Rammell, Madison County Deputy Prosecutor began questioning Hill. Hill said he checked the system for Tylee Ryan, Tylee Cox and Tylee Vallow with the date of birth of 09/24/02 on February 28th, 2020 and there were not any records. There were no further questions from either side.
At 3:35 p.m. the fifth and final witness of the day was called.
Melanie Gibb is... or was a friend of Daybell's and was one of the last known people to see JJ.
East Idaho News
Melanie Gibb testifies at Chad Daybell preliminary hearing
Gibb said she met Daybell 3-4 years ago in Morgan, Utah. She said the nature of their relationship was talking about some of the books Daybell had written and his relationship with Lori. Melanie said she met Lori in Mesa, Arizona at church and became friends.
Gibb said she arrived in Rexburg on Sept. 19th, 2019 and left Monday Sept. 23 around 9:30 a.m. She came to see Lori and attend a conference. Gibb stayed at Lori’s house and that is where she spent most of the time. Gibb spent 10 hours at the conference on Saturday, but the rest of the time she was with Lori. Gibb said she saw Daybell 2-4 times during the weekend. During that time Daybell and Lori held hands, hugged and “light” kissed.
Wood then asked Gibb to recall what happened the night of
Sept. 22nd. She said she recorded a podcast with Lori and her boyfriend, David Warwick between nine and midnight. Melanie remembered seeing Alex Cox carrying JJ into the house and JJ was asleep.
During her stay, Melanie says Lori spoke about JJ going to stay with his grandmother, Kay. Lori said she would say that she was sick so JJ could go stay with Kay. Gibb also said that later on Lori told her that she told Kay she had breast cancer when they met up at an airport for Kay to take JJ. Gibb said she only met Kay once when Charles was moving to Texas.
Gibb then talked about late morning of November 26th. Daybell called her and said “Hi Melanie, this is Chad. The Rexburg Police are going to call you. Don’t pick up.” Gibb said Daybell told her the police were at Lori’s house and they were asking about JJ's whereabouts. Daybell said Lori was going to tell police that JJ was with Gibb. Gibb responded with, “I thought JJ was at Kay’s house.” Daybell allegedly said no and when she asked him if he was nervous he said yes.
Melanie said that Lori called her an hour or two later to reassure her that everything was fine. Melanie said that Lori was “upbeat and cherry – acting like nothing was wrong.” Lori said the police had been to her home and that she told them the kids were with Melanie. Lori asked Melanie to go take some random pictures of kids and to tell the police that Lori would come and pick up the kids later that week.
Lori told Melanie that Kay was trying to kidnap JJ. Melanie asked her how she knew – Lori said she had received emails from Kay that read, “It’s not like I’m going to kidnap them.” Lori said she was trying to protect JJ from Kay and possibly other family members. Melanie said on the phone call from Daybell, he sounded very nervous. Melanie says she felt “horrible” and in shock after getting the phone calls from the two. She had a “really bad feeling” in her stomach and she was really shaken up. Melanie said the Rexburg Police tried calling her and she received a text from them. She says she didn’t respond to the police because Daybell told her not to answer it and Lori confused her when she said her child was endangered. However, Melanie did talk to Gilbert Police Officer Ryan Pillar that day after he called her. She lied to Pillar and told him that she had been with JJ but he was back with Lori.
On the stand Melanie admitted she lied to the Gilbert Police when she said JJ had been with her. She said she wanted the investigators to focus back to Lori and was confused by what was going on. On December 7th-8th, Melanie said she called Pillar and gave him more details about what happened with the kids and Daybell. She also told Pillar that she had recorded a conversation with Daybell and Lori about where JJ was and why she lied to the police. Melanie expressed her concern for Lori and Daybell’s salvation and they had been deceived. Melanie recorded the phone call using her boyfriend, David Warwick’s phone. She said law enforcement did not ask her to record any calls. She said that the recording was made on December 8th from Warwick's home.
Wood admitted a CD containing the phone call into evidence.
The call is played for the court.
Daybell-“Hello, sweet Melanie.”
Gibb-“Hi, Chad. Hey, Lori.”
Daybell- "Here, let me put it on speaker.”
Gibb-“Oh, OK.”
Daybell-“All right.”
Daybell-“We’re inept with the phone.”
Gibb-“How are you guys?”
Daybell-“We’re okay, how are you doing babe?”
Gibb-“I’m doing pretty good, thanks. I was wondering, where are you guys?”
Daybell-“We’re just hanging out.”
Gibb-“Hanging out? Are you? Are you in Idaho?”
Lori-“No.”
Daybell-“We’re nowhere near Idaho. ”
Gibb-“I just wanted to ask you a question if you don’t mind, Lori.”
Lori-“Of course, honey.”
Gibb-“I wanted to know, remember we talked about JJ going to Kay’s [Woodcock, JJ’s grandmother and Lori’s sister-in-law from prior husband Charles Vallow] house? And he told me they went there. And now he’s not there. I was wondering what happened?”
Lori-“Well, I had to move in somewhere else because of her actions. So…”
Gibb-“Was she, was she doing something? Like was she trying to come get them or something or, like trying to kidnap them?”
Lori-“Well, she’s, yeah, she said that often times before, but, umm…”
Gibb-“Okay. Well, you know, when I asked Chad the other day, I was like, Hey, you know, where is JJ? And he said for my security, he didn’t want me to know. So is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?”
Lori-“No, it’s nobody. It’s his danger. It’s the danger that there’s people after me.”
Gibb-“Okay.”
Daybell-“We just thought if you knew, that puts you in a danger.”
Lori -“Well, just in a bad position.”
Daybell-“Yeah, a bad position for her.”
Lori -“Everybody. If they don’t know anything, then they don’t have to say they know.”
Gibb-“Right? So you’re just worried, okay.”
Lori -“I’m just, keep him protected…”
Daybell-“And keep you protected.”
Lori -“And keep everybody else.”
Gibb-“I appreciate that. Well, I was wondering why you told the police why he was with me.”
Lori -“I just needed to use, talk somebody, so I wouldn’t have to tell them where he really was if they were going to tell Kay where he is.”
Gibb-“Oh yeah, so is it you think it’s like your family? Or you know, like your family, your dad or you know or those people?”
Lori -“Well my family, well not my whole family but as you know, most of my family is working against me and–”
Gibb-“Yeah.”
Lori -“–with her, basically.”
Gibb-“Yeah. Is JJ safe?”
Lori -“He is safe and happy.”
Gibb-“Okay, well, that’s good to hear. Are you afraid of anything? Like, are you afraid to tell me that you’re just afraid that he, umm, that I could be in danger? Like you’re, y’know like I don’t, like if I knew, like, how could that hurt me? I don’t understand all that can hurt me if I knew where he was.”
Lori -“Well, I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or question to where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.”
Gibb-“Yeah. Okay, I hope, wow. I hope he’s okay. I hope you guys are okay. I did have a question. I asked Al at one point, your brother if I wanted to know, you know, like where he was? And he said, I did not want to know and that he could not be found. So what does that mean?”
Lori -“I don’t know why he would say that. But it’s the same story. I didn’t even want Al to know I don’t want anybody to know so that nobody has to be worried about it. I mean, nobody has to be–”
Gibb-“Yeah.”
Lori -“–questioned about it so he can be safe.”
Gibb-“Yeah, so are you I mean, are you — How long are you gonna be away for? Like how, I mean, are you ever going to be able to come out and come back to society again? Are you going to keep, you know, like, come back? I mean, like, what does that look like?”
Lori -“I will do whatever the Lord needs me to do every day so…”
Gibb-“Okay. I just wondered if I was ever going to see you again.”
Lori -“Absolutely, you will.”
Gibb-“Okay, so, so maybe when they’re done chasing you, you’ll be able to come out of, JJ will come out again? Or…”
Lori -“Yeah, I mean, it’s a ridiculous thing for them to be working with Kay to find me there’s nothing that’s gone on that’s, y’know what I’m saying? Like, they’re working with her in some dark capacity. The police are working with her in some dark capacity. There’s no reason for them to be after me in the first place.”
Gibb-“Yeah. Has she, has she threatened you at all?”
Lori -“Yes, lots of times.”
Gibb-“Oh boy. What did she say?”
Lori -“Well, it’s in emails and everything. So…”
Gibb-“So, like she said she was gonna come take them or she was…”
Lori-“There’s a lot of things…”
Gibb-“Yeah.”
Lori -“…Melanie.”
Gibb-“Well I know it sounds like it. I’m just worried for you guys because you know, he’s missing. And, you know…”
Lori -“I know exactly where he is. He’s perfectly fine with me.”
Gibb-“Okay, well, I hope so.”
Lori-“(Unintelligible)”
Gibb-“I have a scripture I wanted to share with you if you don’t mind.”
Lori-“I’d love it.”
Gibb-“I was thinking about some of the things you guys have gone through. And I saw this scripture today. And I wanted to–”
Lori-“Let me ask you a question.”
Gibb-“Okay, yeah.”
Lori-“Let me ask you a question about a scripture, ‘kay? Did Alma turn yourself into King Noah? Or what it was he required to be?”
Gibb-“Well, King Noah was incredibly wicked.”
Lori-“Yes.”
Gibb-“And so he he fled his, his evil ways which is, which is adultery and, and living riotously and breaking all the commandments.”
Lori-“Right. So what did he, what was he required to do, Alma?”
Gibb-“He had to go and flee so that he would be safe and then help other people realize how, you know, jacked up the system was and the government was.”
Lori-“What about Moroni? What was he required to do at the end?”
Gibb-“To, to carry Alma’s plates and bury them. That was his responsibility,”
Lori-“What did he do that? What did he have to do to do that? Did he hide?”
Gibb-“Well, he had to hide. He had to hide because they were so–”
Lori -“Oh.”
Gibb-“They were so, everybody was killing everybody in this society everybody was dying. They were killing all the Nephites.”
Lori -“That’s, that’s, and the scriptures had to hide in the cavity of a rock by day and go out by night.”
Gibb-“The prophets, the prophets, the prophets did.”
Lori-“They did.”
Gibb-“Yep. Okay, well thank you for sharing that with me. Okay, I just, this scripture’s just something that may be thoughtful for you. ‘For behold–‘ This is Doctrine and Covenants Section 3, Verse 7 and 8. Says, ‘For behold you should not have feared man more than God. Although man set not the council’s of God to despise his words, yet you should have been faithful and he would have extended his arm and supported you against all the fiery darts of the adversary. He would have been with you in every trouble.’ So, when we work with the Lord and are obedient, he has, he’s gonna protect us from adversarial darts and all kinds of negativity, but when we open the door to Satan, he comes in and then he attacks and then he takes away to make it look like somebody else took it away. But that’s not how God works. He doesn’t work in darkness.”
Lori-
“I agree with you one-hundred percent. And that’s what the Lord is doing for me. Exactly what he’s doing for me.”
Gibb-“Well, I was just–”
Lori-“We have not opened the door to darkness, Mel. Darkness is knocking on the door all the time, because that’s the way dark works with the light. And I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case. But sometimes you have to hide in a cavity of a rock for your own life safety. And that’s what the Lord requires of you sometimes. And that’s how it is. And I’m sorry that’s how it is because there’s a lot of darkness on the earth.”
Melanie Gibb-“I know.”
Lori-“That’s been after me for zero reason, besides the darkness of Kay, which you already know, she’s dark.”
Gibb-“I haven’t met her enough to know if she’s dark or not. I’ve just met her slightly and she seemed like a normal kind of person, but then I haven’t engaged with her that much. So I don’t know that personally.”
Lori-“So you don’t know about her changing the things for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy and also none of that’s dark right.”
Gibb-“Well, I haven’t seen those documents so I have no way of knowing.”
Lori-“You’ve seen them on my computer.”
Gibb-“No, I have not. I haven’t even looked on your computer before. You haven’t showed me anything.”
Lori-“I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call.”
Gibb-“Well–”
Lori -“But I love you with all my heart and I have forever and I will always–”
Gibb-“Well, I appreciate those words. But if you really love me, you wouldn’t have told the police that I had JJ with me. That’s not, that’s not what a friend does. I mean, that just makes me look weird. And it just, it’s not safe. For me. That doesn’t look good. You have to think of my welfare if you love me.”
Lori-“I do and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do. And I appreciate you and I love you.”
Gibb-“Well–”
Lori-“And I’d never to do anything to harm you. And you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord.”
Gibb-“I have and my, my conscience is clear. I feel very understanding what’s really going on, Lori. And I believe that, I believe that you have been very deceived by Satan. I believe that he has tricked you. And I just, I don’t believe that what you’re doing is correct. I just don’t, I mean, Tammy dies. And then your husband died. And then, and then he’s missing it just doesn’t sound like God’s plan to me. Just sounds, it gives me a gut feeling, like in my gut, it feels weird. It doesn’t feel right. I don’t have peace about I never have felt one-hundred percent peace about always felt like a little weird in my stomach about all these things.”
Lori-“You know me, Mel. You know me. This does not sound like you. It sounds like you’ve been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things and have fear and have fear of the Celestial world.”
Gibb“I don’t have fear.”
Lori-“You obviously do.”
Gibb-“No, I have a peace of conscience and I can see clearly.”
Lori-“Well I’m sorry that you feel that way. I love you so much.”
Gibb-“I know you do. I don’t know what else to say.”
Lori-“Stand for Christ when he comes again and he’s coming soon and we will all stand there and you will know at that point that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time and I have not been deceived.”
Daybell-“I just want to testify that I, I know Tammy [Daybell, Chad’s deceased first wife who died in October 2019] loves (unintelligible) and the conspiracy theories. My sister-in-law’s right behind it all and I hope that you’re not being influenced by dark game.”
Gibb-“I don’t know who she is. I’m sorry. You said your sister-in-law? I don’t even know her.”
Daybell-“I know, but she’s coming up with the same type of theories. And it’s just not true. My own children were there. They testified that Tammy had been getting weaker and sick and I begged her to go to the doctor. There’s, she just, her heart was failing her. She was physically falling apart. And she hates doctors and she just passed away. That’s how it happened. My son Garth was right there with me the whole time. My kids were at the house within 20 minutes of her passing. There were two coroners. They checked her out right there on the bed. All these conspiracy theories just make me sick to my stomach. Just absolutely sick. I know, I’ve been told for years that Tammy would pass away at a young age. I had no idea that Lori would even be a part of my life. I just knew that my life had two segments and that I know Tammy’s on a special mission and she’s with my kids. She’s visited them. Just, there’s so much, Melanie, that you just have to have faith. And this is not some sort of master plan. There’s no way Lori and I could have ever come up with this. It’s just…”
Gibb-“You can understand my concern, correct?”
Daybell-“I can, from an outside perspective. But, from an–”
Lori-“From someone who knows as much as you know? No, not really. But we can feel Dave’s [Warwick, Melanie’s boyfriend] influence on you. I can feel that for sure.”
Gibb-“He’s a very good man. And he has a very strong foundation. That I know.”
Lori-“I know, but he seems to be the one that’s putting the doubts in your mind.”
Gibb-“No, no, but, you know what? I have, I have come to understand that my gut feeling, I was not listening to it. And I always felt uncomfortable with many things.”
Daybell-“Okay.”
Lori- “Well, I’m sorry that I included you in those teachings then for your own sake because I wish that you didn’t have as much knowledge as you have, because you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have, Mel.”
Gibb-“So will you.”
Lori-“I agree. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I have no fear. I have no fear of that that. But–”
Gibb-“I was reading the story of Korihor and it’s so very similar to this, you just can’t see it. But he did it because he was trying to reclaim a people and he thought at the very end because of his carnal and natural desires. That’s what influenced him. And he was very, very–”
Lori-“That’s me? And carnal natural desires?”
Gibb-“Well honey, you got a lot of natural desires. We all know that.”
Lori-“That’s what you think is me? Korihor? Are you kidding me right now?”
Gibb-“I think both of you have had similar, similarities. It’s in the scriptures. It’s in the scriptures. And the scriptures are very powerful.”
Lori-“Yes, they are. I live by the scriptures, as you know.”
Gibb-“I know, but we can wrest the Scriptures for our own vainglory.”
Lori-“I wrested the scriptures?”
Gibb-“We can. We can do that and I feel that you have to (unintelligible) our belief systems.”
Lori-“Do I wrest the scriptures? That was you’re accusing me of at this point?”
Gibb-“I feel that you have.”
Lori-“How, why do you feel that way? I need an explanation on this.”
Gibb-“Because if you look like the scripture, just said, okay–”
Lori-“(Unintelligible) the scriptures every single day? Do you know?”
Gibb-
“Oh, I know you read them. I don’t doubt that. But this scripture right here says that you will be supported by all against the fiery darts of the adversary. You would have been supported. If you had not opened dark portals and dark junk. You would have been safe. If you would have obeyed God, he would have had your back but you have been chased and tortured and–”
Lori-“(Unintelligible)”
Gibb-“I’m sorry?”
Lori-“He has my back, so…”
Gibb-“Well, if he has your back, you would not not be able to tell me where you are. And we couldn’t find JJ. Like, where is he? I’ve been asking. Where is he? And you know what I mean? That’s, that’s not the Lord’s work.”
Lori-“I could tell everything where JJ is right now and that would not be good for JJ. So, I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children. But I would never ask you to not protect your children.”
Gibb-“Of course you wouldn’t.”
Lori-“So I can tell that you’re just adversarial, Mel. I love you. I’m sorry that you feel this way.”
Gibb-“I’m not, this is because I actually do care. I’m sharing what I feel for you because I know your salvation’s in trouble for what you’ve done.”
Lori-“My salvation’s not in trouble at all and I think you should check that with the Lord again.”
Gibb-“Well I, I, I felt a lot of things from the Lord. And this doesn’t feel right.”
Lori-
“Well, I’m sorry that you feel that way, sweetheart. I’m sorry that you’re friends with all those who are are against me. Joseph Smith’s friends turned against him.”
Gibb-
“I’m not friends with people that are against you.”
Lori-
“Apparently you are.”
Gibb-“I am not. I don’t know Kay. I don’t know who you’re talking about, your sister-in-law. I don’t even know what her name or who she is. I don’t know any of those people. Why would they contact me anyway? How would I even know about that?”
Lori-“Well, you’re friends with Dave and he’s apparently against me now.”
Gibb-“Well, David is a very righteous man. And I’ve always known that grounding about him. And he has a lot of beautiful experiences with the Lord. And these are not the same. You know, when you get the Priesthood. That’s Peter, James and John shows up and then he confirms all those in the circle that are to get it and everybody’s a witness of that. Everybody’s a witness that the pattern is in the scriptures. There’s no witness that you ever receive what you think you’ve received. Nobody has seen that but you. There’s no witness the witness Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdrey, Martin Harris. The eight witnesses. They all showed up.”
Lori-“Was there a witness when Jesus and Heavenly Father gave that to Joseph Smith by himself in the Grove, was there a witness?”
Gibb-“No, but they had it later with other people. That was one experience but others joined in later when he brought other people into it. And they had experiences.”
Lori-“(Unintelligible) Was that in the scriptures? Yes or no?”
Gibb-“I’m sorry?”
Lori-“Is that the scriptures? Yes or no?”
Gibb-“That, that Joseph was alone when he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ?”
Lori-“Yes.”
Gibb-“Yes, he was alone.”
Lori-“He was alone.”
Gibb-“But he opened up–”
Lori-“So that’s not a pattern at all.”
Gibb-“Honey, what I’m saying is, is that after he saw that and other people joined in, they saw the things with him. He wasn’t alone. There was a witness for them. There was no witness anybody’s never seen what you’ve seen or experienced what you’ve seen. That is your own witness, but nobody’s had that.”
Lori-“I know God knows it, and I will never deny it. For my soul would be at stake if I did. So you can say it didn’t happen to me, Mel. But if I say it, then I am accountable. You didn’t witness it. But I did.”
Gibb-“But your behaviors is not, okay–”
Lori-“(Unintelligible) Jesus Christ.”
Gibb-“I understand that’s what you, you believe you saw but this is the thing is I see is that your behaviors not one of somebody that’s seen Christ.”
Lori-“Never (unintelligible)”
Gibb-“Your behavior, your behavior. What?”
Lori-
“Never had any idea that you would be the person, of all people, to drag me. I cannot believe it.”
Gibb-“I’m asking questions and I am concerned for you. That is what somebody does when they care.”
Lori-“You don’t sound like you’re concerned. You sound like you’re accusatory. You do not sound concerned. You sound pissed off.”
Gibb-“I’m not. I am very, I am troubled. Maybe that’s the better word: troubled. Because these things, like you being with Chad before he’s even divorced, is unusual behavior for a person that’s seen Jesus Christ.”
Lori-“I was never with him and he was never divorced.”
Gibb-“Honey, I’ve seen you guys together.”
Lori-“That’s your story. (Unintelligible)”
Gibb-“Oh, oh. So I haven’t ever seen you with, I’ve never seen you with Chad, kiss him and walk around the track and BYU with him. I never saw that? You say I’m–”
Lori-“You’re the one who’s feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced.”
Gibb-“Oh honey. I think that’s not what we’re talking about here.”
Lori-“It’s not what we’re talking about here. That’s why I’m saying. You aren’t going off the deep end. But–”
Gibb-“I’m just saying, this is not a behavior of someone that sees Jesus Christ. It’s not the behavior.”
Lori-“Really?”
Gibb-“Really.”
Lori-“Have you ever seen Jesus Christ so do you know what the future behavior would be if you’d seen Jesus Christ?”
Gibb-“I know that when I, I know that when I pray–”
Lori-“(Unintelligible) each of you every day and he does protect me and he is protecting me, and he will protect me against this accusation as well. And we will both stand there with him. And you tell me if I was lying or not when we’re both standing there with Jesus Christ.”
(Call disconnects)
Gibb-“Okay.”
Now there are a few things you need to know about some of the words that were mentioned in this call.
Korihor was is anti-Christ type figure in the Book of Mormon.
King Noah was a pretty bad guy as well. He was best known for burning the prophet Abinadi at the stake. It is also said that he presided over a wicked kingdom guided by false priests.
Back to the Prelim.
Rob Wood said he had no further questions and the prelim was adjourned and would reconvene the next day with Gibb still on the stand.
One of my questions about all of the information gleaned this first day... why did would Lori, Alex and Daybell allegedly do this to JJ with Gibb and her boyfriend in the house? Wasn't it a little risky? Why didn't they wait and do it another day?
Do you think Gibb was clueless as to what was going on?
How about how the kids' remains were found? Do you think there was some sort of ritual involved?
Why do you think that they were buried on Daybell's property?
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