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Day 14 of Chad's trial started with former Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Erik Christensen on the stand. He as Chief Medical Examiner for the state of Utah until he retired on April 1st of 2024. He had held that position since 2016 and in the office since 2008. In 2000 and 2001 he trained in forensic pathology and employed there for a year. He said then he worked in South Carolina at the Greenville County Medical Examiner's Officer for six years before he moved to Utah.
Blake asked Christensen who determines cause and manner of death in Utah on a death certificate. Christensen said that about 80% of death certificates in Utah were signed by physicians while the other 20% fall under jurisdiction of medical examiner.
Christensen testified that there was not a lot of national uniformity to death investigation systems and historically most states have had elected county coroners. He said that over time some places have changed and it, Utah is entirely a medical examiner system.
Christensen said that as a medical examiner, you need a medical degree and go through specialty training whereas coroners don't have to have any medical expertise. Christen confirmed that medical examiners perform autopsies and coroners do not.
Christensen testified that has performed around 7,200-7,300 autopsies. He said he performed the autopsy on Tammy. He said that his office in Salt Lake City was contacted in November of 2019 by someone in Fremont County. Christensen said that a court ordered was then issued to exhume Tammy’s body.
Blake asked Christensen if he was present when Tammy's body was exhumed. He said yes as well as the transportation of her body to the medical examiner's office. Christensen confirmed that someone from his office always attends when bodies are exhumed so they can observe the condition of the grave.
Blake asked Christensen if there were any concerns about Tammy’s exhumation that would affect the autopsy. Christensen said no. Christensen then explained hospital autopsies are preformed to look internally for natural causes and that in a forensic autopsy they look for evidence and focus on what was present on the outside of the body before delving into the internal parts. Christensen said that another difference between the two kind of autopsies was that in forensic autopsies they spend a lot of time review statements, police reports and records that will provide them the context of that person's death.
Blake asked Christensen if he obtained records of Tammy's to review. He said yes and confirmed that he also spoke to individuals already involved in the investigation. Christensen said that he reviewed information from the coroner’s office and sheriff’s office before Tammy’s body was exhumed. Blake asked Christensen if exhumations were common. Christensen said no. He said the first exhumation case he was involved in was in 1998.
Blake asked Christensen if an autopsy from a body who had been exhumed was different from one that hadn't been. He said that he depended on the level of preservation.
Blake asked Christensen who determines cause and manner of death in Utah on a death certificate. Christensen said that about 80% of death certificates in Utah were signed by physicians while the other 20% fall under jurisdiction of medical examiner.
Christensen testified that there was not a lot of national uniformity to death investigation systems and historically most states have had elected county coroners. He said that over time some places have changed and it, Utah is entirely a medical examiner system.
Christensen said that as a medical examiner, you need a medical degree and go through specialty training whereas coroners don't have to have any medical expertise. Christen confirmed that medical examiners perform autopsies and coroners do not.
Christensen testified that has performed around 7,200-7,300 autopsies. He said he performed the autopsy on Tammy. He said that his office in Salt Lake City was contacted in November of 2019 by someone in Fremont County. Christensen said that a court ordered was then issued to exhume Tammy’s body.
Blake asked Christensen if he was present when Tammy's body was exhumed. He said yes as well as the transportation of her body to the medical examiner's office. Christensen confirmed that someone from his office always attends when bodies are exhumed so they can observe the condition of the grave.
Blake asked Christensen if there were any concerns about Tammy’s exhumation that would affect the autopsy. Christensen said no. Christensen then explained hospital autopsies are preformed to look internally for natural causes and that in a forensic autopsy they look for evidence and focus on what was present on the outside of the body before delving into the internal parts. Christensen said that another difference between the two kind of autopsies was that in forensic autopsies they spend a lot of time review statements, police reports and records that will provide them the context of that person's death.
Blake asked Christensen if he obtained records of Tammy's to review. He said yes and confirmed that he also spoke to individuals already involved in the investigation. Christensen said that he reviewed information from the coroner’s office and sheriff’s office before Tammy’s body was exhumed. Blake asked Christensen if exhumations were common. Christensen said no. He said the first exhumation case he was involved in was in 1998.
Blake asked Christensen if an autopsy from a body who had been exhumed was different from one that hadn't been. He said that he depended on the level of preservation.
Blake asked Christensen if someone else was involved in the autopsy. Christensen said yes, he conducted the autopsy with trainee at the time, Dr. Lily Marsden. He said that after the autopsy was over they discussed their findings.
Christensen says it’s hard to tell the age of many blunt injuries or bruises. The colors don’t tell you the age of the bruise until you start seeing yellow, green or brown. It’s harder to tell the age of a red, blue or purple bruise.
Blake asked if there was a way to determine a time frame the injuries could have occurred in relation to death. He said that there are many indicators as to the age of the injury, but most you can't really tell the age by looking, particularly bruises.
Blake asked Christensen if he and Marsden had reached a conclusion as to the cause and manner of death of Tammy. Christensen said asphyxia was the cause and homicide was the manner of death. Christensen said that to a medical examiner, homicide meant another person was involved in the victim’s death. Christensen said that Asphyxia meant the person was unable to get enough oxygen. He said that Asphyxia can result from anything that blocks the airway inside or out such as smothering, choking, drowning and chemicals.
Blake asked Christensen if there were any obvious injuries that could have resulted in Tammy's death. He said no. Christensen said that there were no natural diseases found either. He said that Tammy’s heart, lungs, liver, kidneys were all normal. He said that there was some bruising on her arms and one bruise on her chest.
He said that some things can lead to death with no findings for them to see such as seizures, heart rhythm disturbances and drug intoxications. He said that there was some fluid found in Tammy's lungs and that is a common finding in drug deaths and that was one of the reasons they spent a lot of time evaluating intoxicants that might have possibly led to her death.
Blake asked Christensen to explain what a negative autopsy was. He said that it is where there was no pathology, no trauma that explains the death. He said that it was essentially a person with normal anatomy that had died.
Blake asked Christensen to explain what a seizure was. Christensen said that it was a manifestation externally in some fashion that are abnormal electrical charges in the brain that result in abnormal external behavior. Christensen confirmed that he had conducted autopsies on people who have had seizures. He said sometimes they show up in the body or in medical records. He said that the main things that would be seen would be trauma to the person's tongue and evidence of incontinence.
Blake asked Christensen if in preforming Tammy's autopsy, did they find any physical signs of seizure activity. He said they did not. Blake asked Christensen if there were any signs of seizure activity in Tammy's medical records. He said no. Blake asked Christensen if it was normal for someone Tammy's age to all of the sudden have developed seizures. He said it would be unlikely.
Blake asked Christensen if he reviewed information that Chad had told the coroner about Tammy having seizures. Christensen said yes and then he testified that he didn't find anything in the medical reports or autopsy to confirm what Chad was claiming was true.
Christensen then explained what arrythmia and arrythmia irregularities were. He said that the heart is dependent on electrical impulses traveling in a normal way through the heart through ion channels. He said that there are inherited and acquired things that can happen to disrupt the flow of those channels.
Christensen testified that there was nothing abnormal with Tammy's heart. He also agreed that normally heart arrhythmia would not exhibit itself in someone who was Tammy's age.
Blake asked Christensen if during an autopsy he was able to find death was caused by intoxicants. He said that there are things that suggest that, but there are very few things that would allow that to be diagnosed. He said that pulmonary edema is usually found in overdoses, but it is also found in other unrelated deaths as well. Blake asked if intoxicants could also be poisons. He said yes and if a intoxicant is suspected the autopsy results are usually pended until additional tests could be performed.
Blake aske Christensen if he didn't additional testing in Tammy's case. He said that they did.
Christensen testified that usually an embalmed person's blood isn't great to take a sample of, so they usually take one from tissue from a person's liver.
Blake asked Christensen if he administered such tests on Tammy. He said yes.
Blake published a photo that allegedly showed foam coming out of Tammy’s mouth. The photo was not displayed online due to its graphic nature. Christensen said that the foam was a sign of pulmonary edema. He said that a lot of things can result in pulmonary edema, including asphyxiation and that pulmonary edema itself is not a cause of death.
Christensen testified that if he had responded to the scene, he would have done an autopsy because there was no adequate explanation or sufficient medical history to explain her death.
Christensen testified that Tammy's lungs were on the heavy side, but nothing else was abnormal with any of her other organs.
Christensen testified that he looked at the tissue under Tammy's bruises under a microscope to see if he could determine how old the bruises might have been.
Blake admitted photos that were taken during the autopsy to document the injuries. Since the photos were graphic, they were not shown on the livestream.
Christensen described the first photo as being a bruise on Tammy’s left chest. He said that the next one was a closer up image of the same injury that showed hemorrhage in the tissue. The next one showed tissue that was removed. He said that they looked at the tissue under a microscope that showed the hemorrhage. The next one showed the bruise on her left bicep. He said that there was hemorrhage in the bruise. The next one showed two bruises on the back of Tammy’s right upper arm. The next one was of three bruises on the right biceps and two on the right forearm.
Blake asked Christensen if there was any indication to when the bruises most likely occurred. Christensen said that they all showed signs of hemorrhage with no inflammatory so they would have occurred minutes or hours prior to her death. He agreed that they could be consistent with being restrained.
Blake asked Christensen if when he looked at Tammy's body, did he see any signs of lividity. He said yes.
Christensen then explained that lividity is one of the many changes that the body undergoes after death. He said that it is also called liver mortis and it is the pooling of the blood in whatever part of the body is the most dependent or closest to the ground. After 12 hours the lividity becomes fixed.
Blake asked Christensen where Tammy's lividity was. He said that it was all on her back.
Christensen then explained that rigor mortis was the stiffening of the body after death, which happens and hour or two after death. They will be completely stiff in 12 hours. Blake asked if a time of death could be determined based on rigor mortis. Christensen said that one could, but it would be imprecise. He confirmed that that as a forensic pathologist he generally does not determine a time of death. He agreed that rigor could help narrow the time when someone could have passed away.
Blake asked Christensen what time Tammy's death was reported. He said that it was just prior 6am. He said that she was described as being cold and stiff. He agreed that based on that description it would indicate to him that rigor mortis would have set in.
Blake asked Christensen based on the information provided to him and his experience, did form any opinion in relation to a time of death or a time window in relation to Tammy's death. Christensen said yes. He said that she had likely been dead for at least an hour or two for her body to be described as stiff, but it could be many hours more than that and or less than an hour.
Blake asked Christensen if someone with a past history of it explain sudden death. He said it depended on the severity, but someone without a current problem with it, no. Blake asked Christensen if someone treating themselves with essential oils or items from a health food store explain sudden death. He said no.
Blake asked Christensen if the bruising and their locations play into his findings. He said yes.
Blake asked Christensen based on his experience, training and lab results did he find it likely to Tammy to have died from a seizure or cardia arrythmia or intoxicants. He said no.
Blake had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. Prior said that he wanted to talk about the initial cause of death reported for Tammy, which Prior stated was a pulmonary embolism. Christensen said he was able to confirm that pulmonary edema was present, but not the cause of death.
Christensen testified that the reason Tammy was exhumed was to determine the cause of death, but he couldn't recall the exact reason that was given in the court hearing.
Prior asked Christensen if there was discussion about Charles Vallow or Brandon Boudreaux at the exhumation hearing. He said he couldn't recall.
Christensen testified that he can't determine the exact cause of bruises on someone’s body, but he can offer opinions on how they might have been inflicted upon the person. Prior asked Christensen if he spoke to any of the immediate family members about the bruises. He did not. Christensen confirmed that he did not talk to any family members about the medical history about what she used to treat bruises. He said there were ointments and other creams photographed at the house that they looked up and went through.
Prior said, "We don't know why we dug Tammy Daybell out of the ground, right?"
Prior showed the diagram of the bruises on Tammy's body. He asked Christensen how many bruises were on Tammy’s right arm. Christensen said that there were four on the front, four on the back.
Christensen said that on the left arm, there was one bruise and there was one on the chest as well.
Christensen said that on the left arm, there was one bruise and there was one on the chest as well.
Christensen confirmed that he made a determination of asphyxiation in Tammy's case. Prior asks Christensen if he was suggesting someone stopped Tammy from breathing. He said correct. Prior then asked how someone asphyxiated Tammy if there was one person holding her arms. Christensen said he wasn't there so he couldn't tell him the specifics. Prior asked Christensen if someone was holding her arms down, how did she get bruises on the front of the arm and on the back of the right arm. Christensen said that you can have bruising on the front and back from a grab.
Prior suggested that Tammy's death could not have been from asphyxiation. Christensen disagreed. Prior asked Christensen if he was firm on the idea that the death is from asphyxiation. He said he was.
Prior said that bruising alone did not lead to asphyxiation. Christensen agreed. Prior then had Christensen go over the 5 options for manner of death, which are: natural, accident, suicide, homicide or undetermined. Christensen testified that undetermined manner is when you don't have enough information to decide between two manners of death.
Christensen testified that reviewed Tammy’s medical records from Idaho and Utah, which there were not a lot of. Prior asked Christensen if he was aware that 5 years prior to Tammy's death, she has suffered from anemia. He said that he was aware. Prior asked Christensen if he had talked to Tammy's family about her anemia. He said no. Christensen confirmed that Tammy had been taking fluoxetine, which was a form of Prozac. Prior asked if fluoxetine was mixed with the wrong medicine, could there have been significant consequences. Christensen said there could be certain drug interactions.
Prior asked Christensen if the heavy lungs could have an impact on the cause of death. Christensen said yes. Prior asked if Christensen took the heavy lungs into account before determining asphyxia. Christensen said absolutely.
Prior said that he wanted to ask Christensen about seizures. He asked Christensen if he could exclude the fact Tammy didn’t have a seizure. He said he couldn't 100% rule it out, but it was very unlikely.
Prior said that arrhythmia could happen to anyone at any time. Christensen said that was very unlikely. He also testified that based on Tammy’s heart, it was very unlikely she suffered from arrhythmia.
Prior asked Christensen if anemia went undiagnosed for five years, and Tammy wasn't getting treatment, and there was insufficient oxygen to reach her heavy lungs, could we get the same results. Christensen says he doesn’t think so, no with the activities that Tammy was doing.
Prior had no further questions.
Blake was up for the re-direct. Christensen confirmed that he was not the one who requested the exhumation order. Blake asked Christensen if any of Chad’s kids ever reached out to the medical examiner’s office. He said they did not to his knowledge. He confirmed that none of them ever passed along information to the office either. Blake said that there were no documents provided with significant information from Chad's kids. He said that there were none. He also confirmed that he didn't know if the kids ever agreed to speak to law enforcement. Christensen agreed that if Chad's kids had made statements about Tammy’s health, he would have wanted to review them.
Blake said that a coroner doesn't have to have any medical training. Christen said that was correct. Blake said that a medical examiner they have to have extensive training. Christensen said that was correct.
Blake asked Christensen to explain what anemia was. Christensen said that it was when the percentage of healthy red blood cells dropped below the normal levels. He said that the problem of not having enough healthy red blood can happen for a variety of reasons. Blake asked Christensen if anemia was treatable. Christensen said yes, most times. Christensen confirmed that Tammy started having anemia five years before her death. Blake asked Christensen if there were any signs in medical records that Tammy had blood pressure or seizure problems. Christensen did not. He did not find any indication that Tammy had negative interactions with her drugs and herbal remedies either.
Blake asked Christensen if it was possible someone restrained Tammy while someone else suffocated her. Christensen said it was possible. Blake asked Christensen if it was likely Tammy had died of a seizure. He said no.
Blake was done with her questioning.
Prior was back for the re-cross. He said that the only medical records that Christensen had of Tammes was one from 2017 and one from 2019. Christensen said no, he also had records from 2014, 2015 and 2016. Christensen confirmed that Tammy had also went to the doctor for a wrist injury.
Prior had no further questions.
Next witness up to the stand was Alice Gilbert. She was a neighbor of Chad's.
She said that she got to know Chad and Tammy when she moved into the neighborhood through their ward and their community. Gilbert testified that she moved into the neighborhood March of 2017. She confirmed that she got to know Tammy better than Chad. She said that she worked in the same church calling with Tammy. She said that she was the relief society president and Tammy was her first councilor. She said that she met with Tammy twice a week.
Blake asked Gilbert when it was that they were given their callings. Gilbert said October of 2018. She confirmed that she got to know Tammy quite well. She said that Tammy was great to work with. She was organized and could do all the computer work. She said that they valued Tammy's input when doing activities. She said that Tammy would say to keep things simple and that helped a lot. Gilbert said that she had a lot of sympathy and very good wit.
Blake asked Gilbert if she was able to observe Chad and Tammy together. Gilbert said she did, mostly at church. She said that they seemed great at church. Blake asked Gibert if she felt at some point that their interactions had changed. Gilbert said a little bit. She said that in 2019, she noticed Chad and Tammy’s relationship seemed distant. She said that Tammy mentioned that sometimes the finances were strained.
Blake asked Gilbert if at any point did it appear that Tammy slowed down. She said no. Blake asked Gilbert if she noticed any changes in Tammy's activity level prior to her death. Gilbert said no. Blake asked if Tammy ever had any shaking fits or ever fainted. Gilber said no.
Blake asked Gilbert how she learned about Tammy's death. Gilbert said that she received a phone call from Emma Daybell on October 19th, 2019. She said that Emma was sobbing, and Chad took the phone and told Gilbert that Tammy had died. Gilbert also said that Chad asked her not to tell anyone for an hour about Tammy's death. Gilbert told Chad that she needed to tell the bishop. Chad told her not to. She said she knew the bishop was leaving for work, so she called the bishop anyway.
Blake asked Gilbert if she was surprised of Tammy's passing. She said yes. Blake asked Gilbert why she was surprised. Gilbert said that she had just talked to her on Wednesday, and she was fine, and she was excited that she had just gotten a new grandbaby.
Blake asked Gilbert if she ended up going to the Daybell residence on October 9th after Tammy's death. Gilbert said that she and her husband went over to the Daybell home around 8:30am. She said that Chad answered the door and hugged them. She said that all the kids and their spouses, except Mark, were sitting in the living room. Gilber said that “They were stunned. They could hardly speak and were crying.”
Gilbert said that when she asked Chad what happened he told her that Tammy had vomited at midnight, and they thought she passed away at 2am and that her legs were hanging over the bed and that she had fallen out of bed. She said that he also said that they thought she died of an embolism.
Blake asked Gilbert how Chad appeared to her. She said that he didn't seem as upset as the children were.
Blake asked Gilbert if Tammy complained about any health issues when she last saw her on the Wednesday. Gilbert said no. She said that Tammy left a church activity at 8 p.m. to go to a clogging class. Gilbert said that Tammy wasn’t coughing that night.
Gilbert said that when her and her husband arrived at the Daybell house, they the kids if they had breakfast. She said the kids said they did not so Gilbert and her husband stood up to go get the kids some food. She said that she when Chad told her that the funeral would be Tuesday and the memorial on Wednesday. Gilbert said she that she was surprised. She said she asked Chad he had planned "this." Chad told her no. Gilbert testified that she knew what it was like to plan a funeral with a ward and organize the church and have the ladies in the ward provide a meal. Gilbert said that she was also surprised when Chad told her that the funeral would be in Springville.
Gilbert testified that Tammy died on a Saturday and the funeral was scheduled for Tuesday. She said that even though Chad had told her it wasn't she felt like the funeral had been planned.
Blake asked Gilbert if she attended Tammy's funeral. Gilbert cried and said that she needed to see her. She said that her husband and her went to the funeral and that Tammy looked nice.
Blake asked Gilbert if she ever talked to Chad about why he held the funeral in Springville. She said she didn't. She said that she just had assumed it was because they had lived there before.
Gilbert said that when she went to the viewing before the funeral, it was just Chad standing by the casket. She said that he didn't seem very mournful. Gilbert told Chad that Tammy looked good, and Chad said that she did. She said that he didn't cry and then they went into the chapel, and she sat by the bishop.
Gilbert testified that the children did nice talks at Tammy's funeral. She said that she was surprised Chad spoke at Tammy's funeral because most spouses are too devastated to talk. Gilbert says Chad’s speech was like a church talk. She said that at other funerals there are loving tributes she said Chad’s wasn’t.
Gilbert said that there was memorial the next day in Idaho, but she wasn't able to attend, but she did take a meal for the family after. She said that she put it down for them to eat and the kids had started to eat and that was when Chad told them he was moving out. He said that he couldn't be there, that he was moving to Rexburg to a condo. She said that she asked him if he needed help or anything. He told her no that his friend had a condo for him.
Blake said That Tammy was pronounced dead on Saturday, and by the following Wednesday, Chad had plans to move out of the house. Gilbert said yes.
Gilbert said that that day Chad had told his kids to go through Tammy's things. Gilbert said that she was surprised that things were happening so fast.
Gilbert said that she went and saw Emma on that Friday. She said that Emma was sobbing, struggling, sick and had lost a lot of weight. Gilbert said that meals were organized to help her and Garth out. Gilbert confirmed that Garth was struggling too. She said that Chad had already moved out of the house, but Garth still lived there. Emma was living kitty corner.
On October 26th, 2019, Gilbert called Chad to see if she and her husband could come visit. He told them no, that he would come to their house that evening. Gilbert confirmed that she never saw where Chad was living in Rexburg.
She said that when Chad came over Gilbert had made cookies. Chad had told them that he had found the woman he was going to marry. Gilbert and her husband were absolutely stunned when he said that. Chad told them that he had met the lady at a conference in St. George in 2018. She said that they asked Chad who she was. Chad didn’t want to tell who she was at first but then told them her name was Lori Vallow. Gilbert said that at first, she didn't know who Lori was but then remembered that Lori had done a podcast with Melanie Gibb. Gilbert testified that at that time she hadn't met Gibb or Lori. She said that Chad then told them that Lori was in town and asked if they'd like to meet her. Gibb confirmed that she was shocked that Chad had already found someone else to marry.
Gilbert said that that following Tuesday they went to the temple and while they were waiting for a meeting to begin, Chad was there with Lori. Gilbert said that Melani P. was also there.
Gilbert said that that following Tuesday they went to the temple and while they were waiting for a meeting to begin, Chad was there with Lori. Gilbert said that Melani P. was also there.
Gilbert said that later that week Chad and Lori came over to her house. Gilbert said Lori and Chad sat on the couch and it was awkward. She said that Chad and Lori were very affectionate with each other, more than she had seen Chad be affectionate with Tammy. Gilbert said that they were giggling and laughing, and her and her husband were embarrassed. Gilbert confirmed that she had never seen Chad act that way with Tammy.
Gilbert said that she asked Lori if she had been married and that Lori told her that her husband had died in December of a heart attack. She also asked Lori if she had children and Chad said that Lori recently had a daughter that had passed.
Gilbert said that Chad and Lori told them they were going to get married, but they didn’t know when or where. Gilbert said that they also planned on taking Chad’s kids to Disneyland at Thanksgiving.
Gilbert said that Chad also said that he was also going to Hawaii to write a book. She didn't know he was going to live there.
Blake asked Gilbert if they ever mentioned taking any of Lori's children with them. Gilbert said no that she had the impression that Lori was an empty nester. Blake asked Gilbert if Chad or Lori ever mentioned how Lori's daughter died. She said no.
The court took a recess. When they came back Blake asked Gilbert if at some point had she learned that Lori's kids had been missing. She said yes, she learned in November of 2019 that JJ and Tylee were missing. Gilbert said that she then called Chad and asked if the kids belonged to Lori. Chad had told her yes and that it was a custody battle and that when everything came out it would be fine.
Blake asked Gilbert if she had learned where Chad and Lori had gotten married. She said yes, in Hawaii. Blake asked Gilbert after their marriage had Chad and Lori visited them again. She said yes that they showed them wedding photos and Chad was excited to show those photos.
Blake asked Gilbert if she was surprised to see wedding photos. She said yes, she was surprised they gotten married so early.
Blake asked Gilbert if Chad had visited their home again. She said yes, it was after Lori was arrested in Hawaii. She said that he had moved back to Idaho. She said that he first asked them to put up their house up for Lori's bond. She said that Chad also asked if he could live with them. She had told Chad that she was ok with an overnight, but he could not live with them.
Gilbert said that when Chad had come to the house to ask for the bond Chad had come in upset and said that he had to get her out of jail. Gilbert said that "He cried, and he said that 'it was killing her that she was in jail.' And could we put up our house for bond. We asked if there was family that could help him. He said 'no.'" Gilbert said she had told Chad that they'd think about it. She said that that was a Saturday and Sunday they got a text from Chad wanting to bring the bondswoman to their home. Gilbert said she had another conversation about the bond and ultimately decided no, that they weren't going to do it.
Gilbert testified that during the conversation about the bond, she had asked Chad how many daughters Lori had. She said that he had told her one. Gilbert said she reminded Chad that when they met Lori Chad said that she had a daughter that passed away. Chad then had told her that he didn't, and Gilbert said she had told Chad that he did. And when she had asked him about the missing children, he had said it was a custody battle. Gilbert said that he denied telling them that as well.
Blake asked Gilbert if she had learned the name of Lori's daughter. Gilbert said no through him, but yes, she did learn her name was Tylee. Blake asked Gilbert if she ever talked to Chad about Tylee. She said she did. She said that when Chad asked them about the bond, she was a little miffed that he had asked that. Through the tears Gilbert said that she asked Chad "Where are the children? Where’s Tylee? She’s a teenager. Doesn’t she want a life? Doesn’t she want a job? A life and a boyfriend?" Gilbert said, "He said that 'She didn’t like people, and she didn’t like me.'" Gilbert pointed out that Chad had said "didn't". She confirmed that Chad had used the past tense.
Blake asked Gilbert if she had recalled a time in February of 2019 that Chad was at her residents. Gilbert said yes, that when he was there, he mentioned he had a vision that Tammy was going to pass away before. That he didn't know how or when, but it was before her 50th birthday. Gilbert said that Chad had also told them that Tammy liked to play games on the computer and that her deceased grandmother had come to Chad. Chad said that the grandmother told him to tell Tammy that she was not happy that Tammy was wasting her time on the computer.
Blake asked Gilbert if when Chad had told her that Tammy was going to die, did she have any health issues that she knew of. Gilbert said no. She said that she didn't really take it seriously.
Blake had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. He asked Gilbert how often on a weekly basis she had seen Tammy. Gilbert said that they had their meetings on Wednesday mornings for 1-2 hours and then on Sundays. She said that there were four people were present at the Wednesday meetings. Prior asked Gilbert if they sat with the Daybell family at church. She said no, not at the first meeting, but sometimes at the second meeting her and Tammy would sit together. Prior said that after Emma's child was born, the Daybell family would sit in the back. Gilbert agreed.
Prior asked Gilbert if she had any recollection of Chad parking his truck at the Salem church every morning. Gilbert said she had no idea.
Prior asked Gilbert to talk about the meal that they had taken over. Gilbert said that her and the relief society presidency contacted the bishop and he wanted to be a part of taking over food to the house. She said that she and the relief society and the bishop went over and took them food.
Prior said that October 26th, was when Chad was over to Gilbert's house and told them that he had met Lori at a conference in St. George, Utah in 2018. She said that she believed that the conference was in 2018.
Prior then asked Gilbert how she knew Melanie Gibb. Gilbert said that she came upon Gibb’s podcast and that’s where she heard about Lori.
Prior asked Gilbert if she had been to Chad’s house. She said yes. He asked her if it was a one-story house. Gilbert said there was an addition to the house. She said that "You walk through a breezeway and stairs that goes up."
Prior asked Gilbert if she knew who was living in the home at the time of Tammy’s passing. Gilbert said Garth was and perhaps Seth. She said that Emma was living kitty corner to the house. She said that Mark was coming home from his mission and the other daughter lived somewhere in Utah.
Prior asked Gilbert if Chad was trying to hide his whereabouts. Gilbert said that he didn’t with them.
Prior asked Gilbert if when she was talking to Chad about the children, did she get the impression that Chad thought that the children were still alive. Gilbert choked up and said that she felt like he was avoiding it, that she couldn’t get a straight answer out of Chad.
Prior had no further questions.
Blake was up for re-direct. She asked Gilbert if she knew where Chad went every morning. Gilbert said that she didn't know but sometimes saw that his vehicle was gone. She said she once asked Chad about it, and he said he could go to the college.
Blake asked about the stairs. Gilbert confirmed that not all of the residence was one story.
Blake asked Gilbert what Chad had told her about his plans for the future. She said that he said that he was going to Hawaii, and he was talked about marrying Lori, but didn't know when or where.
Blake said that when Chad first mentioned Lori's daughter he referred to her as dead. Gilbert said that Chad had told her that Lori had a daughter who had recently passed.
Blake asked Gilbert if she was aware the remains of Lori’s children were found on Chad’s property. Gilbert said yes. Blake said, "So at that point Chad knew or was aware that one of Lori's children were dead?" Gilbert said yes.
Blake had no further questions.
Blake asked Gilbert if she was aware the remains of Lori’s children were found on Chad’s property. Gilbert said yes. Blake said, "So at that point Chad knew or was aware that one of Lori's children were dead?" Gilbert said yes.
Blake had no further questions.
Next up to the stand was Todd Gilbert. He is Alice Gilbert's husband. Todd said that he heard of Chad in 2015 and that he was an author. Todd said that he has read most of Chad’s books before they ever met in person. Todd said that he and Alice moved to Salem around March 2017 he said that was when he met Chad and Tammy in person. Todd said that they were in the same ward and neighborhood. Todd said that he had met them at church.
Todd said that he spent more time with Chad than Tammy. He would see Chad once a week or once every two weeks at church. He said that sometimes he'd see Chad on his lawn or Chad would ask Todd sometime to come over and help with plumbing.
Blake asked Todd if Chad had ever discussed his purported religious beliefs with him. Todd said yes, a little bit sometimes, but everything didn't ring true with him.
Blake asked Todd if he had ever talked to Chad about his books. He said yes. Todd testified that Chad's books were based on his dreams and visions and near-death experiences. Todd said that when he spoke to Chad told him about events he had seen in his visions and things that would happen in the future.
Blake asked Todd if the things Chad told him had always comported with standard LDS doctrine. Todd said no.
Blake asked Todd if he recalled Chad visiting his home around February 2019. Todd said yes, he and his wife were working on the bedroom floor when Chad sent a text that said he wanted to come over. He said Chad had come over and as he was leaving Chad had said, "'I don't know if I should say this, but I feel like I should tell you that Tammy’s mission is going to come to an end or her life mission before her 50th birthday.'"
Todd said that he spent more time with Chad than Tammy. He would see Chad once a week or once every two weeks at church. He said that sometimes he'd see Chad on his lawn or Chad would ask Todd sometime to come over and help with plumbing.
Blake asked Todd if Chad had ever discussed his purported religious beliefs with him. Todd said yes, a little bit sometimes, but everything didn't ring true with him.
Blake asked Todd if he had ever talked to Chad about his books. He said yes. Todd testified that Chad's books were based on his dreams and visions and near-death experiences. Todd said that when he spoke to Chad told him about events he had seen in his visions and things that would happen in the future.
Blake asked Todd if the things Chad told him had always comported with standard LDS doctrine. Todd said no.
Blake asked Todd if he recalled Chad visiting his home around February 2019. Todd said yes, he and his wife were working on the bedroom floor when Chad sent a text that said he wanted to come over. He said Chad had come over and as he was leaving Chad had said, "'I don't know if I should say this, but I feel like I should tell you that Tammy’s mission is going to come to an end or her life mission before her 50th birthday.'"
Blake asked Todd if he knew how old Tammy was. He said that he didn't but figured she that was around 48.
Blake asked Todd if they ended up going to the Daybell residents that morning. He said yes, around 8:15am. Todd said went they arrived, all of Chad's children were there except for Mark, who was on a mission. Todd said that they were all sitting on the couch and Chad didn't seem like he was really sad. Todd said that Chad seemed business like, which was kinda strange.
Todd said that when he talked with Chad that day, he remembered Chad's prediction of Tammy dying. Todd said he told Chad, "Well it looks like it must've happened." Chad had told Todd "Yes it did." Todd said that Chad then turned his back from his children and said that he hadn't told them about his vision.
Todd said that he had asked Chad if he had any idea what happened to Tammy. Chad had told Todd that Tammy had gotten up around midnight, had a big coughing spell, threw up and went back to bed. Todd said that Chad figured Tammy died around 2 am from an embolism or something. Chad had then Todd told that around 5:30am, the weight of her body rolled out of the bed onto the floor partially and he yelled for Garth to come help.
Blake asked Todd if prior to Tammy's did he have opportunity to observe her. He said yes, on several occasions they had seen her shopping at Walmart. He said that she looked and talked fine. He said that he would see her a church once a week and out in the yard when they'd drive by, and she looked fine. Blake asked if Tammy ever looked like she had failing health. He said no.
Blake asked what Todd's observations were of Chad and Tammy's relationship. Todd said when he first moved into the area, he was a home teacher for the church, and he would go to Chad's home. He said that Chad and Tammy would usually sit on the couch holding hands. He said that at church it was about the same. Todd said at the beginning of 2019 until Tammy's death, Chad and Tammy slowly began to move towards the back, like they were hiding or didn't want to be seen and that their demeanor seemed to be a little bit separate from each other. Todd said that Chad was also harder to find at church to talk to.
Back to October 19th, 2019. Todd said that he and his wife left and got breakfast for everyone at Chad's house from McDonald’s. He said that when they returned to the house, there was more people there so Garth told them to leave the food on the table.
Todd said that the day after the funeral they took dinner to the Daybell residence around 6pm. Todd said that Chad told him that he needed to move out and he couldn't stay there anymore. Chad had told Todd that he had a friend on Pioneer Road in Rexburg he was planning to move in with. Todd said he figured that it was a man that Chad was going to stay with.
Blake asked Todd if he had attended Tammy's funeral. He said yes and that things moved fast. He said that it seemed odd and that it was like someone was thinking ahead of time. He said it seemed real fast to have a funeral for your spouse you were in love with.
Todd said that before the funeral started, Chad was standing by the casket, and he seemed and looked ok. Todd said that he looked at Tammy in the casket. Todd said that he and his wife felt like they needed closure with Tammy. He also said that Chad seemed like he "was in a hurry to get it over with."
Todd said that the Saturday after the funeral around 5:30pm he and his wife called Chad and said they wanted to bring him a pizza. Todd said that Chad told them he would instead come to their house. Todd said that Chad arrived around 6pm and sat down at the table. He said that Chad then told them that he had a girlfriend. Todd said that "We about fell on the floor." Chad then told them her name was Lori Vallow. Todd said that he heard that name before and then remembered it was on a podcast.
Blake asked Todd if Chad had ended up telling them anything else besides about Lori besides her name. Todd said yes and that Chad told them that that Tammy’s mission was basically over with this Earth life and the second half of his life was with Lori and she was going to help him fulfill his mission.
Blake asked Todd if at some point had he end up meeting Lori. Todd said yes, Chad said Lori and her friends were going to be in the area and asked if Todd and his wife would like to meet her. Todd said that he and his wife work in the temple and they met Lori and Chad at there.
Todd testified that two or three days later, Chad and Lori went to his house. Todd said that they were real happy and excited with each other. He said that Chad and Lori ended up sitting real close to each other on the couch, holding hands. Todd said that he had seen Chad rubbing her leg and that he thought that was kind of odd that Chad's first wife had only been dead a week and a half and Chad was carrying on like a teenager in love. Todd said that he had never seen Chad like that with Tammy.
Todd said that Chad and Lori told them they were going to move to Hawaii, that they were planning to be together and eventually get married. Todd said that he asked Lori if she had been married before. Todd said that Lori said that she had and that her husband had died of a heart attack in December 2018. Todd said he asked Lori if she had any children. She had said that she had several and Chad "popped up" and said she had a daughter who had just died.
Blake asked Todd if Lori had mentioned having a minor son. Todd said he didn't recall that.
Todd testified that Chad and Lori returned his house the second week of November of 2019. He said it was after they got married wanting to show them all of their wedding photos "which was quite a few." Todd said they had told him and his wife about a family trip with Chad’s kids to Disneyland and Knott’s Berry Farm around Thanksgiving. Todd confirmed that they never mentioned taking Lori’s kids on the trip.
Blake asked Todd if he had found out when it was that Chad and Lori got married. He said yes, that they got married on the 5th of November.
Blake asked Todd if in any of the wedding photos had he seen a teenage girl or a minor boy. Todd said no. He said that there was only Chad and Lori in those pictures.
Blake asked Todd if he ever had occasion to ask Chad how his kids felt about Lori. Todd said yes, that when they'd see Chad, he would kinda already bring it up himself. Todd said that Chad told them that they were fine with Lori and that Tammy had appeared to him in spirit at least twice and she was doing fine. She understood the plan, she was going to move on in the spirit world and Chad’s mission was to be married to Lori, and his children were fine with it.
Blake asked Todd if some time after they'd moved did Chad end up coming back to their residence. Todd said yes, they came to their residence after Lori was brought back to Rexburg and booked in jail. Todd said that when Chad walked in the door, Chad said, "Christ has sent me here to ask you guys if you would be willing to put your home up for bond to get Lori out of jail." Blake asked Todd if they ended up agreeing to do that. Todd said no.
Blake asked Todd if he remembered being present and hearing the conversation about Lori's daughter. Todd said yes that he remembered that Chad said that she didn't really like him too much and so she would stay away from him.
Blake asked Todd if he had been to the Daybell residence before. He said yes. Blake asked Todd if there were any stairs in the home. Todd said that there were some in the back part of the home.
Blake had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. He asked Todd about the part of the house with the stairs. Prior asked Todd how he would describe the attached building on the back of Daybell’s house. Todd said that there was mechanical room and a storage room in the bottom and a room up above the area. Prior asked Todd who used the attached building. Todd said that the whole family used it, and there was a bed upstairs.
Prior said that Todd said he knew Melanie Gibb through a podcast. Todd said correct. Prior asked Todd if Gibb was involved in any organization attached to the LDS faith. Todd said not that he was aware of. Prior asks Todd if he was familiar with the term "Preparing a People." Todd said yes. Prior asked Todd if Gibb was involved in that organization. Todd said to his knowledge, she really wasn't involved with it. Todd testified that Chad introduced him and his wife to Melanie Gibb at the "Preparing a People" conference in Idaho in 2019.
Prior asked Todd if he ever heard Chad talk about his predictions about Tammy's demise at any of the conferences. Todd said no that he had never heard Chad talk publicly about it. Todd testified that he and his wife had attended three of the conferences.
Prior asked Todd what AVOW was. Todd said that it was a preparation website.
Prior said that Chad was an active member of the LDS Church through all the time that Todd has known him. Todd said yes.
Prior asked Todd if there was a limitation as who could go to the temple. Todd said yes, you have to have an active membership and a temple recommend. Prior asked what a temple recommend was. Todd said it was when you go to your bishop, and he asked you a set of questions to make sure that you are living the gospel.
Prior asked Todd who else had been at the temple besides Lori. Todd said Melani P. and another lady.
Prior asked Todd that when he spoke to Chad about the circumstances surrounding Tammy's death that she had experienced a coughing spell. Todd said correct. Prior asked Todd if Chad had mentioned that Tammy vomited. Todd said yes. Prior asked Todd if Chad had mentioned what Tammy had eaten to make her throw up. Todd said no.
Prior had no further questions.
Prior asked Todd what AVOW was. Todd said that it was a preparation website.
Prior said that Chad was an active member of the LDS Church through all the time that Todd has known him. Todd said yes.
Prior asked Todd if there was a limitation as who could go to the temple. Todd said yes, you have to have an active membership and a temple recommend. Prior asked what a temple recommend was. Todd said it was when you go to your bishop, and he asked you a set of questions to make sure that you are living the gospel.
Prior asked Todd who else had been at the temple besides Lori. Todd said Melani P. and another lady.
Prior asked Todd that when he spoke to Chad about the circumstances surrounding Tammy's death that she had experienced a coughing spell. Todd said correct. Prior asked Todd if Chad had mentioned that Tammy vomited. Todd said yes. Prior asked Todd if Chad had mentioned what Tammy had eaten to make her throw up. Todd said no.
Prior had no further questions.
Blake was up with the re-direct. She asked Todd if Preparing the People was attached to the LDS faith. Todd said no.
Blake asked Todd if some of the things that Chad discussed was beyond the LDS beliefs. Todd said yes.
Blake asked Todd that if someone disclosed, they were having an affair, would they qualify for a temple recommend. Todd said no.
Blake asked Todd if he had recalled that Chad had told him that he and Garth had to pick Tammy up and put her back in bed. Todd said yes.
Blake asked Todd if Chad had told him that Tammy had died at 2am. Todd said yes. Blake said that Chad had said that she rolled out of bed several hours later. Todd said yes.
Blake had nothing further.
The court took a recess. When they returned the next witness to the stand was Janice Olson. Olsen lived in St. Anthony and had taught first grade for 30 years. She had always taught at Central Elementary.
Wixom asked Olsen what her interaction with Tammy was like. Olsen said that she saw Tammy all day, multiple times a day and that they had lunch together 3-4 times a week.
Wixom asked Olsen how she would describe her and Tammy's working relationship. Olsen said that Tammy was a friend and good colleague. She said that Tammy was very organized, on top of things and went the extra mile to get books into kids' hands and to make sure they knew what was in the library.
Olsen testified that Tammy had attended Olsen's high fit/Zumba class twice a week. She said that each class was an hour. She said that Tammy attended regularly and went right along with everyone in class. She testified that Tammy never struggled in class and wouldn’t quit early. Olsen said that Tammy was active and healthy.
Wixom asked Olsen how she had learned of Tammy's death. She said she got a call that morning from a student's mother telling her that Tammy had died. Olsen said that she was shocked. She said that she had just seen Tammy the day before at school, and Tammy had been at exercise class. She said that Tammy never mentioned anything about not feeling well. Wixom asked Olsen if she noticed Tammy having any symptoms or if she looked like she hadn't felt well. Olsen said no.
Wixom had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. He asked Olsen about the day before Tammy died and if Tammy had been preparing for a book fair. Olsen couldn't recall.
Prior was done with his questioning.
Wixom was back up with the re-direct. He asked Olsen to explain where her classroom was Olsen said that it was right be the front door. She said she saw Tammy walking around school all day, every day. She said that Tammy would come and gather books before the students went to the library. She said that Tammy would also gather books on certain subjects and bring them to the classrooms.
Wixom had nothing further.
Ballard said she had met Chad on October 31st, 2019, when he visited her office to inquire about an individual health policy for him and his children. She said that Chad was losing coverage that day from his deceased’s wife’s policy through her employer plan. Wixom asked Ballard what children Chad wanted covered. Ballard said Seth, Leah and Mark. Wixom asked Ballard if Chad had made inquiries at that time for adding a spouse. Ballard said no.
Wixom asked Ballard what the qualifications where that kids had to meet to be on their parents' or stepparents' insurance. She said that they needed to be under 26, unmarried and to be claimed as a dependent on the joint tax return.
Ballard said that she and Chad discussed his income, demographic information and options for insurance. She said that Chad said without his wife’s income, his self-employment as a book publisher would operate at a loss. Ballard said that she had learned from Health and Welfare that Chad had been making $30,000 a year. Ballard said that she asked Chad for a copy of Chad’s his tax return to verify his income.
Wixom said that it sounded like Chad was claiming that his business operated at a loss, but he had made $30,000. Ballard said yes.
Wixom asked Ballard when it was, she had had talked to Chad next. She said that she had texted Chad on November 5th, 2019, asking for his 2018 tax returns. She said that Chad responded that he was out of town all week but would be able to stop by the following week.
Ballard said that the next time she had talked to Chad was on November 21st when he came back into Ballard’s office. She said that based on Chad’s tax return, it was proven that his business did operate at a profit, so he was eligible for different insurance, and they discussed his options for January 2020.
Ballard said that Chad asked her if he were to get married how hard would it be to add the new wife. Wixom asked Ballard if Chad was saying that hypothetical or if Chad had told her that he was married. She said that Chad never said that he was married. She said that she then told Chad that there were a lot of variables and that they'd worry about that if it happened. Wixom asked Ballard if Chad had told her in that conversation that he planned to marry. She said that Chad then told her "Look I'm going to be honest with you, I will probably be married by the end of the year. So. I am just curious what the process will look like."
Wixom asked Ballard if at the time did Chad discuss any other potential dependents with her. She said no. Wixom asked Ballard if any time in that conversation with Chad, had he mentioned the names JJ and Tylee. She said no.
Ballard testified that the next time she had interaction with Chad was on December 11th,2019, when Chad picked his health insurance plan and paid for it. Wixom asked Ballard if at the time did Chad bring up the names JJ, Tylee or Lori. She said no.
Wixom asked Ballard if any time after that she had received mail at her office for Chad. She said yes, she had received five letters addressed to Chad, but they had been sent to her address. Wixom asked if clients have ever had their mail forwarded to her address. She said never and that was very weird.
Ballard said that on December 23rd of 2019 she was in Health and Welfare doing other business when she learned Chad had remarried someone who had two children that were missing. Ballard said she was concerned and confused and wondered if they were the children she had helped insure. Ballard said it also made her question his deceased wife. Wixom asked Ballard in what way had it made her question Chad's deceased wife. Ballard said that she was curious of the timing, that it just seemed fast.
Wixom asked Ballard if her office had handled insurance for Tammy before she passed. Ballard said yes, her office handled Tammy’s health, life and disability insurance before she passed away. Ballard said that she looked at Tammy's life insurance amount and learned it had been paid out. She said that during her open enrollment in August or September, Tammy had upped it to the max.
Ballard testified that on March 11th, 2020, Chad went to her office to ask about getting health insurance for his wife, Lori Daybell. She said that Chad told her that he had married Lori on November 5th, 2019. She said that he had told her that Lori was incarcerated. Ballard told Chad that she wouldn’t necessarily need insurance right now. Ballard said that he was worried about to Lori. Ballard said that she told Chad she would be covered by the state if she was incarcerated.
Wixom asked Ballard if she had a discussion with Chad about how to potentially ensure Lori if she were no longer incarcerated. She said yes. She said when Chad told her the date of marriage, she said that it was outside of the 60-day enrollment window. She said that Chad told her that Lori should be getting out the following week. She said that they could use that as a qualifying event.
Wixom asked if in the conversation had Chad brought up anything about his computer. Ballard said when they were going through the information, and when she got to the income Chad told her "They confiscated my computer, so I haven't been able to pay myself yet." Ballard said she said "They?". Wixom asked Ballard if Chad said who it was who had confiscated his computer. She said the FBI.
Ballard said that Chad wanted to make sure he, his wife and son Mark would be covered. Ballard said she had asked Chad about adding dependents. She said that Chad never mentioned JJ or Tylee.
Wixom asked Ballard if having learned of JJ's and Tylee's missing status, had that caused her any concern. Ballard said that she was concerned they had a fraudulent life insurance payout. She said that she was "worried Tammy’s death may not have been an accident," and the life insurance money was paid out when it shouldn’t have been.
Ballard said that she next had a conversation with Chad on March 16th, 2020. She said that Chad had reached out to her because he had received some information from Health and Welfare that Lori’s identity could not be verified. She said that Chad provided his marriage certificate and Lori’s driver’s license to verify her identity and the issue was resolved.
Ballard said that the last she spoke to Chad was on March 26. She that she had told Chad to let her know if anything changes. Chad had then told her that it was going to be a pretty tight year and he didn't see anything changing.
Ballard said that on March 11th she had talked to Chad one final time to make sure there was no dependents he wanted added.
Ballard testified that she had done the presentation for open enrollment at Tammy’s school district, and she gave Tammy the life insurance election form.
Wixom asks Ballard if any point in time when Chad had come into the office had she ever noticed what he was wearing. She said that when he had come into her office on November 21st, she had noticed Chad was wearing a turquoise ring on his wedding finger. She said that she had wondered if it was his wedding ring with Tammy or if it was an engagement ring with his new wife.
Wixom asked Ballard if later on had she noticed Chad wearing different type of ring. She said yes, when Chad was in her office on March 11th, Chad was thinner and tanner and had on a black ring. Ballard said she assumed that was his new wedding ring, and the turquoise ring must have been Tammy’s.
Wixom had no further questions.
Prior was up for the cross. Prior said that Ballard had been interviewed by Detective Mattingly. Ballard said yes. Ballard confirmed that the entire family was losing health insurance coverage that day that Chad had first came in because of Tammy’s death.
Prior asked Ballard when the enrollment period was in the Sugar-Salem School District. Ballard said that they gave a deadline for the forms to be sent back and it was very common for people to take the forms home and discuss them with their family. She said that the forms were due back September 15th. Ballard said that she gave the presentation at the school on August 23rd, 2019. She said that Tammy elected for $80,000 of insurance. Prior asked Ballard if it wouldn't be unusual to get the maximum amount of insurance. Ballard agreed.
Ballard testified that Lori’s children never came up in conversation.
Prior was done with his questioning.
Wixom had no re-direct.
