Lori Daybell Trial Day Six Part 1Jailhouse Phone Call Between Lori And Colby.

Zulema Pastenes, who was married to Lori's brother Alex Cox was back on the stand with John Thomas questioning her for the defense. John started out by asking Zulema about her relationship with Alex. Zulema said that her first date with Alex was in August 2019 and that their first kiss and the first time they held hands was on October 31st of 2019. Zulema confirmed that between August and October they frequently spoke on the phone about scriptures, talks they had read, their families and that they were just getting to know each other.

John then asked Zulema what happened in the week between October 31st and November 7th, 2019. Zulema testified that she was in Arizona and Alex was in Rexburg.  She then confirmed that Alex presented her with and engagement ring on November 7th in Rexburg when she came to visit him. John asked Zulema if they had talked before about getting married. Zulema said that “Alex was very clear that he was looking for a relationship and he wanted to get married.” 

John asked Zulema how the subject of marriage came up. Zulema testified that the first time they went to dinner, Alex told her he wanted to get married and have a relationship. Zulema said she didn't know if she had a reaction to what he was sharing with her. Zulema said though that when Alex proposed on November 7th, she was not surprised because Alex had already told her that he was looking for a ring and asked for her ring size a few days before she came up to see him.

Zulema testified that she had been visiting Alex in Rexburg for two to three days. She then went home to Arizona and Alex stayed in Rexburg. Zulema said that she didn’t physically see Alex again until Thanksgiving when he came up the day before stayed with her through the whole weekend. John asked Zulema if Alex went home after that. Zulema said no. 

John asked Zulema if she and Alex got married on December 1st, 2019. She said she didn't want to give him the wrong date, but she believed it was that. John said to Zulema," It was your wedding day, you remember your wedding day, right?"

Zulema answered, "I wish I could tell you I know exactly the date, but there has been so much trauma around that that date and all of the events that happened around that time that at times it’s very hard for me to remember certain things … especially for things I’d like to forget."

John asked Zulema if the death of Alex is what she would like to forget. Zulema said, "That among many others, yes."

John then asked Zulema what other things with Alex were traumatic at that time. Zulema cried as she answered. “I went to work early December 12th, and Alex was fine, and when I came home Alex was laying on the floor of my bathroom dead. And then the paramedics came and started working on him and then they took him to the emergency room, and they worked on him for about an hour and they brought me back into the room where he was connected to machines. They were doing CPR on him and then after many efforts to revive him. I had to give the OK to have the machines turned off. That is very traumatic, sir.”

John asked Zulema if he was right when he said that she really knew Alex for three and a half to four months. Zulema replied, "That i knew him personally, yes."

John asked Zulema how she could know him through August to December but spend very little time with him. He then interjected that maybe Zulema didn't know Alex as well as she thought she did. Zulema disagreed with the suggestion. She said that whenever Alex wanted to do something or make a decision on something he would have to ask Lori and Chad's permission. As example Zulema said that when Chad told Alex in a blessing that he would be moving to Rexburg and that he would be one of the warriors in Rexburg, the following day, Alex got a plane with Chad to check Rexburg out and eventually moved there. Zulema said that after they had gotten married Zulema told him that she would be living with her family in Arizona. She said she had already told him that her family and her life was in Arizona. She said at the time he was still living in Rexburg, and he told her that he had to ask Chad and Lori what he should do.

John then handed Zulema two exhibits that had been admitted in the grand jury proceedings. The first one was a text message between Zulema and Chad and the second was between Zulema and Lori. Zulema then read the first message to the court. It stated that her daughter didn't want to move to Rexburg and that she was feeling like Zulema was abandoning her. She asked him in the text if he could do a reading to see who her daughter was before this life, that maybe her daughter will start seeing "truth." She had text Chad that she was told she'd move to Rexburg that week but not right now, so she would need to prepare for when that eventually would happen. She told him that she was grateful for being there for her and she was grateful for him. Zulema then read Chad's response back. He said that he would find out who her daughter was in a past life and that he agreed with her about Rexburg and that he was also grateful for her.

Zulema testified that during the time Chad and Lori were really pushing her to move to Rexburg continually. She stated that he even gave her blessings telling her to move to there. She said that it didn't really make sense to move there because her family and her job, basically everything was in Arizona. Zulema said, “I really really trusted these people. I trusted that these people were who they said they were. Chad said he had a veil, and he could see to the other side. He said he was constantly being guided by angels and other heavenly beings. Lori said she had conversations with Jesus Christ. I trusted them. It was very hard, and I was confused. So, i started praying and asking if i could have an answer.” Zulema said during one prayer, she got her answer from God telling her that she would go to Rexburg eventually.

John said to Zulema, "So, it wasn't Chad pushing you, it wasn't Lori pushing you it was the lord pushing you."

Zulema replied, "Yes they were sir."

John then asked, "Yes or no, did you pray about it?" 

Zulema replied "Yes." 

John then asked her, "And yes or no, the Lord told you eventually that you would go to Rexburg?" 

Zulema answered, "Yes, but not right now."

John said, "So, it wasn't Lori and Chad pushing you to move to Rexburg."

Zulema said, "Yes they were, in every blessing they gave me."

John had Zulema read another text message she sent Chad. "I woke up this morning and the first thing i heard was i have made you mine and it was a man's voice, not my voice. I believe that i am on the right path and getting closer. I feel so much better than i did in the past week. So, all you did for me worked. i'm starting to feel myself again.

John then had Zulema read another text from her to Chad.  “I have a couple of questions for you. Do I have a calling and election made sure? Will I have a calling and election made sure? Do I have a second comforter? And … how I will know when and how to the temple when the callout happens?” Zulema confirmed that the text was made on July 24th, 2019.

Zulema then read another text message she had sent to Chad a few minutes later stating that she was yearning to go to the temple and to only serve God and that God was telling her to leave the world behind, that she didn't have time for anything else.

Zulema next read the reply to her from Chad stating that he was so excited for her and that she was on the right path. He said to her in the text that her being a multiple creation person she had already her calling and election as well as the second comforter. He also texted her saying that he thought that she would be one of the first gatherers.

Next Zulema read her text back to Chad. She said that she just got chills over her body reading his text back to her and that is why the voice came back to her saying "I have made you mine" because he already had! Oh, it is so amazing!!

John asked Zulema if there were times where she called Chad or called on him for blessings to heal her from pain or spiritual binding. Zulema answered yes. John then had her read a text she had sent Chad around Christmas of 2018. "Merry Christmas! I hope you had a beautiful time with your family. Could you tell me if i have weapons on my back? I think i am being attacked again."

John asked Zulema what she meant by that text.  Zulema said that Lori and Chad always taught that when you have any kind of physical pain or any emotional pain happened to you, that it was usually an attack from the dark side and evil spirits attacking your body or your emotions. Zulema then confirmed that she believed it.

Zulema confirmed that she felt like someone was attacking her back. John asked if it resolved on its own or if Chad did something to resolved that for her spiritually. Zulema answered that she didn't know, so John had her read another text that Chad had sent her. "Hi, Zulema. I have captured and seal away the evil spirits that were attacking you. And i have removed the weapons and am healing the damage."

John asked Zulema if she felt like that worked, or if it was just "hocus pocus." Zulema said there were times that Chad would do some kind of energy work and she would feel better afterwards but she couldn't remember if she felt better after this incident. John had Zulema read the reply she sent to Chad after he said he healed her. In the text she told Chad that she could move her shoulder blade and thanked him.

John asked Zulema if Chad or Lori had asked her to hurt anyone spiritually. Zulema answered no. Zulema confirmed that at the time she believed she had always done things for the light. She testified that at the time she thought that they were doing something good to help get rid of darkness and evil spirits off the earth, but now she believed that the intentions were different and evil. She said that their praises of her and the things they were saying to her were evil and manipulative and the result of it all was evil.

John had Zulema another text she had sent Chad. "Hi Chad, how are ya? I just wanted to tell you that i have been given a new weapon of light fire. I'm practicing and using it. I used it this weekend to heal the girls when they were attacked. I was attacked a lot this weekend. A lot! I'm using the fire to heal me, but i still feel my body in pain and warn out. Can you please do some healing on me?"

Zulema said that lightfire was like imagining in your mind a light aura and putting fire around it and putting it around somebody or a wound to help it heal. Zulema confirmed using it for good and healing purposes and casting of evil spirits.

John asked Zulema if she had or has ever had a portal in her home. Zulema answered no. He then asked Zulema to read another text she sent to Chad on April 8, 2019 in which she asked Chad if he could help her create a portal in her home to help get answers. Zulema testified that she didn't recall this conversation.

Zulema confirmed that she did some castings at her home with Lori and other ladies in her small group and that one of the castings was to get a demon named Garrett out of Charles. John asked if the casting worked. Zulema said that she didn't know because Lori always had to check with Chad to see if the spirit had actually left. Zulema then confirmed that Chad said that it had worked. Zulema confirmed that after this spirit left Charles that Chad and Lori had said another one came in and she had believed them.

Zulema confirmed that Charles passed away on July 11 of 2019. John asked Zulema if she recalled what she was doing that day. Zulema said that she was at the temple. He then had her read text messages to Lori that stated that she was on her way to the temple and that she'd be in the celestial room. Zulema then read another text to Lori stating that Zulema was working on Hiplos while in the temple and was told he would be taken as he is. “7/11. I hope today is a good day for all of this to end.”

Zulema confirmed that cellphones were not permitted in the temple, so she didn't have it while she was in there. John said that 8:54 a.m. is when the first message was sent to Lori and the one where Zulema said she had been at the temple was at 11:30 a.m. Zulema said that she supposed to meet Lori that day and that they were going to work on casting out Hiplos together, but she never showed up.

John asked Zulema if there was a time where she had gone to the Phoenix temple in the celestial room and some heavenly beings showed up. Zulema said yes and then confirmed that the heavenly father and mother were there as well as Jesus and her eternal husband. Zulema then stated she didn't recall that day. John then said to her, "You saw Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother and Jesus and you don’t remember what happened?"

After close to a minute of silence on Zulema's part, John said that he would withdraw the question and then stated that he had no further questions for Zulema.

Rachel Smith for the prosecution began some follow-up questions.

Zulema confirmed that on cross she liked to look for the good in people and part of looking for the good in people is based on her beliefs and her faith as a member of the Church of Latter-Day Saints.  Rachel said to Zulema, "So in answering his questions a lot of your questions were about trying to see Lori as a, you started out trying to see Lori as a good person and a person of faith like yourself." 

Zulema answered, "Correct."

Zulema then confirmed that she let law enforcement take her phone and extract the text messages and information from it and that the text and communications from it between her and Lori were typical conversations that they would have. 

Zulema confirmed that Lori and Chad would continuously call Zulema a goddess and that had a very special mission and that her mission was the most important. Zulema stated, "It made me feel very good and really special. I started to really believe it."

Zulema said that they made Alex feel special as well. She said that Chad and Lori told Alex he was the angel who had come to Saul before he became Paul, and he was the one who spoke to him and made him blind so he would mend his ways and become a follower of Jesus Christ. She said that they also told him he had been an angel before that had appeared to the Latter-day Saint founder Joseph Smith. She said they also told him he had been exalted in other creations with his wife Holly, and he had been a very powerful warrior. She said thy had also told him that he had unmasked Satan in another creation, and that is the reason why Satan had so much animosity toward him. 

Zulema confirmed that Alex believed every word of what Lori and Alex told him. Zulema confirmed that Alex quit his job and moved to Rexburg and sold some of his belongings after Chad and Lori told him to do so. She said he even left behind some of his belongings in Arizona. Zulema said that Chad and Lori told Alex the only reason he came to earth at this time his was to protect Lori.

Rachel asked Zulema about castings. Zulema confirmed that the demons would just get stronger every time they were cast out of Charles. She said that by the time they tried to cast Hiplos out, that Chad and Lori said he was so strong that it was almost impossible to cast him out. Zulema then confirmed that the only way for a person not to be possessed again by a dark spirit the body had to be destroyed. She said that Alex believed everything they told him.

Rachel said that she had no further questions for Zulema and she stepped down from the stand.

Next witness called to the stand was Colby Ryan with Rob Wood for the prosecution doing the questioning. Colby is Lori Vallow Daybell’s son from her 2nd marriage and the adopted son of her 3rd husband Joseph Ryan.

Rob asked Colby how he knew the defendant. Colby answered that she was his mother. Rob then showed Colby a photo and asked him if he knew who that was. Colby responded tearfully that it was his sister, Tylee Ryan. Rob asked Colby what his specific relation with Tylee. Colby answered that she was his half-sister. Rob then showed another photo. Colby said that it was a picture of his little brother JJ Vallow. Rob asked Colby what his specific relation to JJ. Colby answered that he was his adopted brother.

Rob asked Colby if he knew who Charles Vallow was. Colby said that he did, that Charles was his stepfather. Colby confirmed that Charles had been his stepfather for about 13 years. Rob then asked him if he remembered the day that Charles died. Colby said yes and then confirmed that he had had a conversation with Lori about how Charles died. Colby said he was at work and confirmed it was between two or three in the afternoon when she called him and told Colby that Charles had died of a heart attack. Rob asked Colby if Lori had said anything to him about Charles being shot. Colby said no.

Rob asked Colby if he had gone over to Lori's house the day that Charles was killed. Colby said that he did go there around seven-thirty after his shift. He said that Tylee answered the door and gave him a hug. When he went inside, he saw Alex Cox with a white bandage on his head, sitting on the couch and watching TV. Colby asked Alex why he was wearing the bandage. He said that Alex told him that he got hit in the head with a bat and shot Charles. Colby said that Lori's demeanor that night was calm.

Rob then asked Colby if he ever got to speak to Lori about Charles' life insurance policy. Colby said yes that a few weeks after Charles was killed Lori told Colby that she wasn't receiving any of the life insurance money for Charles. Colby then confirmed that with the conversation he had with Lori it seemed that Lori thought she was the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance policy until he died.

Rob asked Colby that if before Charles died if he got to speak to Lori about her and Charles' finances. Colby said yes, maybe monthly or twice a month or every other month telling him that they were out of money.

Rob asked Colby if he knew who Tylee's father was. Colby answered yes, Joseph Ryan. Rob asked if he knew if Joseph was alive or deceased. Colby said that he was deceased and that died in 2018. Rob asked Colby if he was aware that Tylee received Social Security benefits after Joseph passed away. Colby said yes. He then confirmed that he spoke to Tylee about money, and he was aware that she had a bank account. He confirmed that Tylee had sent him money randomly through Venmo mostly. Rob asked Colby if to his knowledge did Lori ever send him money by sending it to Tylee who would then forward it to him through Venmo. Colby answered yes. Rob asked how Colby knew that. Colby said that he would speak with his mom and then she would send it to Tylee and Tyle would Venmo it to him.

Rob then asked Colby if he had a text message conversation from Tylee on September 8th, 2019. Colby said yes that he asked Tylee if she could transfer money from Venmo to him. He said that she answered him back that she was no longer in control of her money that his mom was handling it.

Rob asked Colby if he also spoke to his mom on September 8th, 2019. Colby said yes. Rob asked Coby if she told him where they were. He said yes. Rob then asked Colby if he had been able to hear Tylee in the background. Colby answered yes to that question as well. Colby said that she told him that they were in the Yellowstone gift shop in the Yellowstone National Park.

Rob asked Colby if he ever had a conversation with his sister's money after Charles' death. Colby said yes that Lori told him that she was going to be using it for bills and to take care of them while she found a new job.

Colby confirmed that he was contacted by police on November 27th, 2019, asking where JJ and Tylee were. Rob asked Colby if JJ or Tylee were with him on November 27th of 2019. Colby said no. Rob then asked Colby if at that time he have cause to be concerned about Tylee. Colby answered yes that his conversations over text with her did. He said that when he first text her he followed up with a few phone calls and facetimes and then the texts he received back were "in a different language than Tylee would talk like her punctuation and things like that." Colby confirmed that it didn't feel like Tylee that he was speaking with. Rob asked Colby how long he had got texts from Tylee after it felt like it wasn't her. Colby said a little after Tylee's birthday on September 24th. Colby confirmed that he still received Venmo and cash app payments from Tylee after September 2019 and the cash app payments were sent by Lori's account.

Rob asked Colby if after Charles died, did Lori tell him that she was going to get married again soon. Colby said yes, a few weeks after Charles died.

After the police contacted Colby on November 27, of 2019, he said he contacted his mom and asked her what was going on and why were they looking for the kids. Rob asked Colby if he knew where his mom was on November 27th and Colby answered no. Colby confirmed that he knew his mom had moved from the Pheonix area, but she never told him where she moved to. He said he had asked her where she moved to, but all she would say is it was somewhere that was cold and that it was dangerous to tell anyone where she was going. November 27th, of 2019 was the day after Thanksgiving. Rob asked Colby if he had tried to contact Lori on Thanksgiving. Colby answered yes, but her phone was disconnected, and he wasn't able to contact her after that.

It was now the defense's turn to question Colby. Jim Archibald asked Colby who is dad is. Colby said William Lagioia. Jim asked Colby if he ever had a relationship with his dad. Colby answered said no. Jim then asked Colby who raised him. He answered his mother. Jim asked Colby if he had a stepdad. Colby said yes and that his name was Joseph Ryan. Jim asked him if Joseph adopted him. Colby said that he wasn't sure. 

Colby confirmed that he is married and has two children. Jim asked Colby if Lori has ever met his children. Colby said that she met his oldest daughter when she was a baby.

Jim asked Colby if his childhood with Joseph and Lori good or bad. Colby said that it was bad. Colby then confirmed that Lori protected him and Tylee from Joseph by moving away from him and divorcing him.

Colby confirmed that his next stepdad was Charls Vallow who he had a good relationship with and who treated him better than Joesph did. He also confirmed that he, Tylee and JJ had fun times growing up with Charles and that he had a good relationship with Tylee and JJ.

Jim asked Colby if when Tylee was younger if she had had any health issues. Colby said that she had had pancreatitis and had to go to the hospital for it.

Jim then asked Colby if JJ had special needs. Colby said that JJ was diagnosed with Autism.

Colby confirmed that Lori took care of his and his siblings needs growing up. 

Jim asked Colby if he had some struggles as a teenager. Colby said yes and confirmed that Lori had helped him through some of those struggles. He also confirmed that he was involved in athletics as a teenager and that also helped him. Colby confirmed that he and Tylee had suffered through depression. Jim asked Colby if Lori had helped him and Tylee with thoughts of lack of self-worth. Colby answered yes and confirmed that she had encouraged him to do good things in his life. Jim asked if Lori encouraged Tylee to do good things in her life. Colby answered that he didn't know.

Jim asked Colby how old he was when he left home. He said that he was 17 and that he had went to live with his uncle Adam Cox in Kansas. He then testified that he then moved back to live with Lori and Charles in Chandler, Arizona. Jim asked Colby if he graduated from high school. Colby said no and confirmed that he had got a GED and that the same was true for Tylee. Colby testified that when he moved back in with Lori, he went to Gilbert Community College in Chandler. He also confirmed that when he was 18, he went on an LDS mission to Nampa Idaho for six weeks. Coldy confirmed that his mother was supportive of his decision to go on the mission and when he returned.

Jim asked Colby if Lori taught him about Jesus. Colby answered yes. Colby confirmed that his mother sang songs about Jesus in church and build the foundation for him to believe in Jesus. Jim asked Colby if his mother had ever taught him about multiple lives and multiple creations or that he was another person in another life in another world. Colby said no. Colby confirmed that his mother never taught him about zombies, casting out evil spirits or dark and light scales. Jim asked Colby if Lori talked to him about vibrations. Colby said that Lori had told him that they were the same vibration. Jim asked Colby if Lori ever taught him that she was a goddess or a teacher of the 144,000 or the LDS religion was wrong. He said no. Jim asked Colby, she ever taught him that he should join a new church called The Church of the Firstborn or that Jesus cast out evil spirits or that Jesus ever killed anyone. Colby answered no.

Jim asked Colby if he was at home when Charles filed for divorce from Lori. He said no. Jim then asked Colby if he was at home when Charles and Lori reconciled. Jim then asked Colby how his relationship was with his uncle Alex. Colby said that it was minimal that Alex was odd, crude and kind of funny. Jim asked Colby what he thought about the relationship between Alex and Lori. Colby said that he didn't really see Alex a lot until around his wedding in 2018. Colby confirmed that Alex didn't really come and visit him as a child. After Colby got married, he moved out of his mom's house.

Jim asked Colby if he wrote a book since the case started. Colby said yes, it is called God Over Odds. He said it is about his testimony and how Jesus has helped him through his life. Colby also confirmed he did some appearances on tv stations, on YouTube and in a docuseries none of which he was paid for. Jim the read a snippet of what Colby said on the docuseries. "My mom has spent her whole life protecting us kids." Colby confirmed that is what he had said. Jim then read, "until she met Chad Daybell she changed." Colby said that he didn't remember saying that, but he could have. Jim said to Colby, "In your book and in the docuseries, you talked a lot about your childhood. And you never once thought your mom would hurt someone. Is that fair to say?" Colby answered yes. Jim asked Colby if he loved his mom. Colby said yes. Then Jim asked Colby if Lori loved him. Colby said that he thought so. Jim then read a quote from Colby's book. "This book is dedicated to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for always being there with me throughout my entire life." Then he asked Colby who taught him that God was good. Colby answered that the church and his mom did. Jim read more quotes from Colby's book that claimed God had helped Colby through obstacles in his life. Jim then said he had no more questions.

Rob was back for the prosecution asking Colby questions. Rob asked Colby if since he had moved out of his mom's house, did she ever ask him for money. Colby said no. Colby confirmed that the only thing that Lori ever asked him to do was help her move. Rob asked Colby if his father was still alive. Colby said yes. Colby then confirmed that he wasn't getting Social Security Benefits for a dead parent. Rob asked Colby if his mom controlled his bank account. He said no. Colby confirmed that at one point, Lori gave him Tylee’s debit card so he could buy himself a birthday present.

Rob asked Colby if in the last few years if Lori had ever asked him to attend any special religious meetings or come to her house and listen to Chad Daybell or to participate in castings. Colby answered no.

Rob asked Colby when it was, he found out where Lori moved to. Colby said it was after he saw the news, which was December 19th, 2019. Rob then asked him when it was, he found out that his brother and sister were missing. Colby said when the police came to ask where they were.

Rob asked Colby if Lori had ever talked to him about her life insurance policy. He said yes that he thinks when he was younger if anything happened that there was something there. Colby confirmed that Lori had said she had listed him as sole beneficiary when he was a teenager and Tylee and JJ were still alive.

Rob asked Colby if he knew if Lori had asked Tylee for money. Colby answered yes.

Rob said that he had no more questions for Colby, and he stepped down from the stand.

Rob then played a jail house recording between Lori and Colby that had already been submitted into evidence.

Colby- "Hello. Hello."

Lori- "Hi Colb. Can you hear me?"

Colby- "Yeah, i can hear you."

Lori- "Do you really want to talk to me?"

Colby- "You think you can hide from me?"

Lori- "I'm not hiding. You stopped talking to me."

Colby- "Probably because you murdered my siblings. Probably why i stopped talking to you. Maybe you should understand."

Lori- "I didn't. I'm sorry you feel that way."

Colby- "You didn't do anything, right? Mom, i've prayed your you in my worst moments. I've prayed for my siblings, who you swore to me were ok. I thought i could trust you. I thought you were a completely different person."

Lori- "You've known me your whole life Colby."

Colby- "I don't know. I don't know a murderous mother."

Lori-" It's not very good to make judgments when you were there and you don't know what happened."

Colby- "What happened?"

Lori- "Everyone is making their own judgements."

Colby- "Mom, you have ben shoving BS down my throat for a verey long time. I'm going to talk to you."

Lori- "You could be made at me."

Colby- "Hey listen to me. I'm not mad. Listen to me. Fine listen to me. I sat there and i prayed. I can't tell you the amount of pain. That i've felt from your decisions. In Jesus Christ's name. It kills me to watch you sit here and tell me this is a trial. It kills me to watch you take the victim's route and say this shouldn't have happen to you. When you have to tell me that Chad Daybell came into your life and all of the sudden everything changes. And i'm talking about my spirits feel this. And i prayed. I trusted you. I gave you every chance. I could pass my own limitations as a human being. I push pass all of everything to try to get to you to help my own mother. You have lied to me specifically to me more times than i can count about this. To know that they're gone, and you knew. And my phone being texted by my little sister who's not even alive. My little brother who's the sweetest little kid ever for what purpose? And you tell me this is god's will for my whole family including my stepfather to be dead. After everything you've tried to tell me you can tell me Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world is on your side. You tell me that with all the conviction in your heart that Jesus Christ is on your side right now. Please.

Lori- "I can tell you that."

Colby- "Say it to me. Say his name. Say he told you and you followed him with exactness because i have prayed for you. I sat there and tried my best to forgive you, Chad and Alex. And i was deceived and i was broken by my own mother. What are you doing? What are you doing? I prayed to heavenly father. And i said you tell me father."

Lori- "Ok. We have made all these judgments. They think they know what happened. They think they know what happened."

Colby- "I don't care about other people."

Lori- "They think they know who's responsible."

Colby- "Do you know what you told me?"

Lori- "They think they know everything."

Colby- "Doy know what you told me?"

Lori- "But you don't because you weren't there."

Colby- "You're right. I wasn't there. I was kept black."

Lori- "That's right. And one day you will know."

Colby- "While two kids were murdered."

Lori- "One day."

Colby-" MURDERED."

Lori- "You will know what actually happened."

Colby- "You're right, cause you know what mom? God will show everything into the light."

Lori- "We will stand there with Jesus."

Colby- "You're absolutely right. He will convict the people who act in his name with pure blasphemy.

Lori- "Hee hee hee."

Colby- "This funny? This is funny? This is funny? You are laughing like this is funny. How come your cameras aren't on mom? You don't want to look at me in the eye? Why can't you look at me? It's just you and me. I'm in my house alone."

Lori-"It was nice to talk to you Colb. I love you. I always will. One day you will see and understand."

Colby- "Go ahead and hang up."

Lori- "I do love you."

Colby- "See how that works for you. You gonna hang up?"

Lori- "I don't, i don't have anything else to say. You obviously don't know. You weren't there."

Colby- "Let me tell you something mom.

Lori- "You were there. Summer wasn't there. My mom wasn't there. The police weren't there. The FBI weren't there."

Colby- "You're right. You know who was there?"

Lori- "Nobody was there."

Colby- "Tylee and JJ, mom."

Lori- "Yeah and guess what. They know, they know exactly what happened."

Colby- "Buried in the backyard."

Lori- "They love me, and we are sealed together forever. The love me and are fine, and they do know the truth and i know the truth and we are the only people that do. So you can judge me Colby all day long. Go a head and judge me. This whole world has."

Colby- "Judge me?"

Lori- "The whole world has judged me."

Colby- "Mother listen to me please."

Lori- "They don't know."

Colby- "Hey please stop."

Lori- "And you don't know. You don't know what i've been through and you didn't give a crap what they've been through. Nobody does except for me. I'm the one that knows."

Colby- "Are you serious?"

Lori- " I'm the one that was in the hospital with Tylee for hundreds of days watching her suffer. I was the one doing everything for JJ every day. I was the one that did it all these years."

Colby- "You did it all to throw it all in the garbage."

Lori- "You don't know what happened."

Colby- "They're dead."

Lori- "You don't know what happened."

Colby- "It doesn't freaking matter what happened if they are buried in your new husband's backyard. Tell me that matter. What happens? You tell me you did this in Jesus' name mom. I have to figure that out right now. If you believe it then you are not afraid. Every witness of Christ will scream his name when he comes back. So are you that person?"

Lori- "I am the person i am."

Colby- "You can't be that person because Jesus Christ commissioned you to be a murderer."

Lori- "Oh yeah Colby. Cause that's what it is. You don't even know. You weren't even there."

Colby- "When i asked you about Tylee in October what did you tell me? What did you tell me? What lie did you feed me? Why would you lie to me if you are so, if you were with the Lord and you've seen him. And i'm just purely talking to you. And you've seen Jesus Christ. Where's the fear? Why wouldn't you tell me something? Why were you afraid? Why is everyone against you? Why is everything against my mom? 

Lori- "OK Colby you can be against me all you want. One day we will all stand there with Jesus. We will all stand there with Jesus and you will know the truth about of everything. Not for me."

Colby- "You're telling me that this was all done in light. Say it. Tell me that this was all done in Jesus' name."

Lori- "You don't know what happened."

Colby- "Why, why don't i know mom? Oh, because i was kept in the dark to protect me? You know who needed protecting? My little dead siblings. That's who needed protecting mom."

 

Lori- "Where were you when... (Inaudible) Is that what you think you need to hear?"

Colby- "You ran away. A month later you ran away. I never wanted you guys to leave. I would have taken those kids in a second. I would bring them into my home and i would have taken care of them. That's not even a question for me."

Lori- "Everybody says that. Yeah everybody says that."

Colby- "Says that now? Where was my offer? Where was my offer?"

Lori- "I did everything for them."

Colby- "'Colby could you have Tylee and JJ here for just a week while me and Peter Griffin run away together to Hawaii.' How about that? If you had offered me you would have known. You cannot sit here and lie to me."

Lori- "Is this what everybody thinks? Cause that is not the truth, k? That's what people are thinking."

Colby- "They were murdered put in the ground."

Lori- "They are assuming."

Colby- "And you walked away."

Lori- "No you don't know that."

Colby- "Tell me the truth."

Lori- "That is not what happened."

Colby- "What happened? You tell me what happened. If you can tell me what happened i don't care. If you actually swing it, then it's different. 

Lori- "I would love to talk to you."

Colby- "But you can't. Mom you've been saying that you've been wanting to tell me for a long time, and you never say it. You have no idea how much pain i've felt in my body. I feel like i could die. My own mom, my siblings and my whole family, my dad, everyone is gone except for you, and you are in jail because of it. I have prayed to Heavenly Father himself and asked him to help me survive this. Do you understand the freaking earthquake that has been caused. Do you know how many people are hurt and broken now? You're telling me that there's a reason. Why are you following Chad down the rabbit hole mom? Why would you follow anybody that's not good? How can you follow someone that cannot lead you to salvation in Jesus, mom? You can't lie to me anymore. You can't pretend anymore. You can't hide anymore. If you want to tell me what happened, i told you from the very beginning. You had enough condemnation for the whole entire family for eternity. But you are telling me that you're going to stand in front of Jesus Christ and you're going to be fine? Then i'm still praying for you. I am still praying for you. I don't know where the lies in all these things are written. I don't see it. I never have. The light of Jesus Christ is the most powerful thing that's ever lived. It's the most loving and embracive thing that has ever happened to this world. And i pray that you see him and fall into his grace. I pray every day, i pray no matter how i am mad at you, no matter how bad it hit your husband in the head in the face with a shovel. I pray for you. I pray for him. You ripped my heart out and you ripped off everyone in this family's heart out. I'm going to be in Idaho this week. You need to look me in my eye mom. Look me in my eye."

Lori Daybell Trial Day Five Part 2

Lori's former friend and sister-in-law Zulema Pastenes is still on the stand being questioned by Rachel Smith for the defense.

Zulema testified that if someone is possessed by a demon, they are considered dark and bring only bad things to happen and that they would be considered dangerous. Zulema said that Alex believed this more than anyone else at the second casting did.

Zulema said that Lori told her that this second casting worked, but now a more powerful demon had possessed Charles, and this time it was a demon's name was Hiplos and he'd done the same things for hundreds of years and was an expert.

Zulema confirmed that there was another casting for Charles to removed Hiplos. She said that at the time, Lori had moved to Texas with Charles. She asked Zulema and the other women to be on a conference call early in the mornings and they would do castings on Charles to remove Hiplos. Christina, Nicole, Melanie Gibb, Melani Boudreaux, Lori and Zulema participated in these castings. Zulema says several castings were done on Charles during this time.

Zulema said that Lori said this was a powerful demon and the castings were not working and that the reason Charles moved to Texas because there were doctors to help people who were possessed by demons, and they could help keep the bodies alive and going. Zulema testified that Alex knew that Charles was being possessed by an exceptionally strong spirit.

Zulema then testified that she had asked Lori why she moved to Texas with Charles after all the problems she had with him. Lori told her that she needed to go so she could get her finances straight. Zulema also testified that she didn't know if Alex knew Lori was claiming she went back with Charles to get her finances straight.

Rachel asked Zulema if during this effort to cast out Hiplos and deal with Charles, did Charles pass away. Zulema answered yes and that Charles died on July 11th of 2019. Rachel asked Zulema how'd she remember that date. Zulema testified that Lori always said that she had a connection with the 7-11. Zulema said that Lori would mention the number all the time and that she a spiritual connection with the number. Zulema said that when Lori told Zulema what had happened, she said that it was on 7-11 and that it was her numbers, and it was all orchestrated by God and Hiplos or Charles had been delivered to her and Alex.

Rachel asked Zulema to tell the court what Lori told her had happened to Charles. Zulema said that Lori told her that Charles had rented a house in Chandler, Arizona for Lori and the kids. Lori told her that Charles came from out of town to pick up JJ for school. Lori said while he was putting JJ in the car, she took his phone, and he came back for it. She said they started arguing about the phone and Alex was there and got involved in the fight. She said they started to fight, and Alex said he was trying to protect his sister. Lori told Zulema that Tylee came into the middle of the fight with a baseball bat telling Charles to leave and Charles took the bat away from Tylee. She said that Charles then hit Alex on the back of the head with the bat. Zulema said that Lori then told her that Charles and Alex wrestled around fighting and at one point Alex got his gun and he shot Charles and that is how he died.

Rachel asked Zulema if Lori told her what happened after the shooting. Zulema testified that Lori told her that the police had interrogated them and that they deemed it to be in self-defense.

Zulema then testified about what Lori told her was going to happen next. Zulema said that Lori told her that certain things that she needed to do to usher in the Second Coming. One of them was that she needed to cleanse the earth of evil spirits. She said that Charles’ death one of those steps. Zulema testified that she didn't know if Alex believed it or not.

Rachel asked Zulema if Lori had talked to her about staying in Arizona or moving. Zulema said that Lori told her that she wanted to stay in Arizona, but that Chad told her that she needed to move to Rexburg, so she moved to Rexburg. 

Rachel asked Zulema what the significance of Rexburg, Idaho. Zulema said that Chad had said that it was going to be a refuge as other countries were going to invade the United States. Chad said soldiers and warriors would defend that area and that area had been prepared by the church as a place of safety.

Rachel asked Zulema how she learned that Lori was moving to Rexburg. Zulema said that Lori had told her that she was moving. Zulema said that Lori told her it was part of her mission to be there. Zulema testified that Alex, JJ and Tylee moved with Lori and that Alex ended up living at the same apartment complex. 

Rachel then asked Zulema if Lori told her how she was going to pay for or finance things in Rexburg. Zulema that when said asked Lori how she was going to pay for things since she didn't have a job, Lori told her she was receiving Social Security benefits from Tylee’s dad for passing away before she was 18. Lori told her that JJ was receiving Social Security from Charles dying and that she had been married for over 10 years to Charles, she would also receive Social Security. Zulema said that Lori told her that the total amount was around $6,000 a month so she said she didn’t need to work.

Zulema then testified that she went and stayed with Alex at his apartment in Rexburg in September of 2019. Zulema said she never saw Tylee and when she asked Lori where Tylee was Lori told here “She had to be freed”. Zulema said that when she asked Lori what she meant by that and Lori lifted her hand, put it up to Zulema’s face and said, “Don’t ask.”

Zulema testified that JJ was there when she visited Alex in September. Zulema said that JJ was playing outside with his friends. Zulema said that Lori told her that JJ had some toilet training issues since they had moved.

Rachel asked Zulema if Lori said anything about JJ being attacked by demons. Zulema confirmed that Lori had told her before they moved to Rexburg that JJ was being attacked by demons.

Rachel then asked Zulema if Lori said anything about Tylee being attacked by demons. Zulema said that right before she moved to Rexburg, Lori told her that Tylee had been possessed by a evil spirit or demon named Hilary and that she told her on more than one occasion about this. Zulema said that Lori had told her a few times about JJ's possession too.

Zulema then talked about JJ's service dog. JJ's service dog was named Bailey. Zulema said that Lori told her that the evil spirits attacking JJ and they were going into the dog because it was easier to possess the dog. Zulema then confirmed that Lori gave away the dog before moving to Rexburg after Charles died.

Rachel asked Zulema if once they moved to Rexburg if she voiced any concerns about Tylee being possessed. Zulema said no that Tylee wasn't there when she went there. Rachel then asked Zulema if Lori said anything to her about JJ being possessed by demons while she was in Rexburg visiting. Zulema said not that she could recall.

Rachel then asked Zulema what was JJ doing when she got there. Zulema said that JJ was playing outside with his toys and his friends from the neighborhood. She said that he then came inside to ask for a popsicle and then he went back outside. Then he came back in for a snack and then he went back outside. She said that Lori brought him in around 7 p.m. and started getting him ready for bed. Zulema testified that Lori said she had hired a nanny or a babysitter to help her take care of JJ when she needed and that she also had a subscription to a bounce house place so Lori could take him there to be entertained.

Rachel asked Zulema if she saw Chad while she was in Rexburg. Zulema confirmed that while Chad was visiting Lori in Rexburg Tammy was still alive and he was still living with her. Zulema said Chad asked her to lie for him and send him a text saying that she was speaking at a conference or at an event and she wanted him to come and hear her speak. Zulema testified that Chad wanted an excuse to tell his wife she he be with Lori. Zulema said she sent the text and Chad came over. Zulema said that when Chad got there, he and Lori were aggressively trying to convince her to move to Rexburg. Zulema said that they kept telling her that part of her mission was to be that and that she needed to help them build Zion there.

Zulema confirmed that she had a job. She then testified that she told Lori that if she moved to Rexburg that there is no jobs there for her, for her experience or for her past jobs or anything that would match her. She said she asked Lori what would she do there for finances and Lori told her not to worry about it that Melanie Boudreaux had enough money for all of them.

Zulema confirmed that Melanie Boudreaux was Lori's niece and that she was in the process of getting a divorce from her husband. Zulema also confirmed that Melanie B received a substantial divorce settlement of several hundred thousand dollars.

Zulema testified that when Lori told her that Melanie B had enough money for all of them, that she told Lori that that money was Melanie's and not hers. Zulema said that Lori didn't really have a response to that.

Rachel asked Zulema if she told Melanie B about the idea of her supporting all of them. Zulema said that she told Melanie B what Lori said after Alex had died. Zulema said that Melanie B told her that she was very sad that people would say that about her and her money.

Zulema confirmed that while she was visiting Lori in Rexburg that Chad gave her another blessing. She said that in the blessing that Chad said that the Savior was standing right next to him and that he was giving the words to say to her, and that the Savior was telling her to leave Babylon and move to Rexburg. She said that he also added that all her sins were forgiven. Zulema testified that Lori and Alex were also present for the blessing.

Zulema testified that it had to be someone from the priesthood giving the blessing if they were going to use the priesthood power.

Zulema confirmed that Alex also received a blessing from Chad and Lori that day in front of her. Zulema said that Chad told him that the Savior was standing next to him giving him the words to say. Alex was told all his sins were forgiven, and he started to sob.

Zulema said Chad gave her a blessing in August 2019 in Lori’s Arizona house. She said that Chad told her that she would be moving to Rexburg and that she was going to be getting married and reiterated it in this blessing in September.

Zulema testified that Chad and Lori taught that a man and a woman should always be together because they were stronger as an entity than as two separate people. They said that if they are together, they can have the priesthood together and they can be stronger and more effective in whatever they are going to do. Zulema said that once her and Alex started dating, that they started saying that they should be married.

Zulema said that before Alex moved to Rexburg, that she went with Alex to dinner to get to know each other. Zulema said that on her trip to Rexburg, she watched movies with Alex and he was really funny. She said they got to know each other and had fun talking. Zulema testified that her trip in September to Rexburg was really short and only lasted two to three days.

Zulema said that Alex came to Arizona to visit for Halloween in 2019. Lori had asked if Alex and Melanie B could stay at her house. Zulema said that she gave Melanie B her bedroom and she and Alex stayed up most of the night talking. Zulema said that that was the first time they held hands or kissed.

Zulema confirmed that she and Alex got engaged on her next visit to Rexburg, which was November 7th, 2019. Zulema said that when she visited Rexburg, Chad, Lori, Tyle and JJ were not there. She said that her and Alex didn't know where Lori and Chad were at first, but while she was visiting Rexburg, she and Alex were sent pictures of the couple getting married in Hawaii. 

Zulema said that after her and Alex got engaged, she went back to Arizona, and he stayed in Rexburg. 

Zulema said that she invited Alex to Thanksgiving with her and her family and he accepted. Zulema said that she didn't have any communication with Chad and Lori on Thanksgiving and neither did Alex. Zulema said that Alex had been communicating with Chad and Lori on a regular basis, but when Alex left Rexburg to visit her in Arizona, they stopped communicating with him even though he was sending them messages and trying to call them. She said Alex was upset and said something like, “Can you believe they are being such jerks after how much I helped them, and now they don’t want to talk to me?”

Rachel asked Zulema if she remembered when Tammy Daybell was shot at. Zulema said that if memory served her right that Tammy was shot at on October 9th. Rachel then asked Zulema if she remembered hearing Tammy dying. Zulema said that Melanie Gibb had called her the night before. Zulema said that she was confused and didn't know what to think.

Rachel asked Zulema if she was present with Lori around the time that Tammy was shot at. Zulema said that she was with Lori the same night that Tammy was shot at. She said that Lori had texted her earlier that day and asked her to go to Melanie B's house because she needed Zulema to help her with something and she needed to see her. When Lori got to Melanie B's house, she said that Lori told her that Tammy had been possessed by a demon, and Lori needed here help casting the evil spirit out of her.  Zulema confirmed that the demon's name was Viola. Zulema said that at the casting Melanie B was there and her kids were asleep. Zulema said that while she was casting with Lori, Melanie B got a phone call.

Rachel asked Zulema how the casting on Tammy ended. Zulema said that Lori said she received some new information on the casting. Lori told Zulema that they were going to be using the cosmos, and Lori kept praising her how awesome she was. Zulema said that afterwards Lori then got a call and Lori was very very angry, scary angry.” Zulema said that Lor was using derogatory terms such as “idiot” and “moron,” and she was very angry with whoever was on the phone. Zulema said that after Lori got off the phone she said to Zulema, “Idiot can’t do anything right by himself.”

Zulema said that after Tammy died, Lori told her that Chad and she had received instructions and visitations from angels and taught them out to cast demons out and now they knew how to do it. Lori said that is the reason that Tammy died.

Zulema testified that Lori told her that she and Chad were going to settle down in Rexburg where they were going to build Zion and that was going to be a place of refuge and then all of the sudden, they were going somewhere else.

Zulema said that Lori told her that the day after Tammy's funeral, Chad was going to move into her apartment. Zulema said that she asked Lori isn't that a little too fast, and shouldn’t there be time for grieving? She said that Lori didn't respond to that.

Zulema said that instead of Chad and Lori going to Rexburg and creating Zion like they said they were going to, they just left and got married in Hawaii. Zulema said that on their way back from Hawaii, Chad and Lori had a layover in Phoenix and they were staying at a hotel close to Zulema's house. They asked her to come and see them at their hotel and have dinner with them and then drop them off at the airport, which she did.

Zulema said that at the dinner she asked Lori where JJ and who was taking care of him if they were in Hawaii. Zulema said that Lori said JJ was with Kay.

Zulema testified that she married Alex on December 1st.

Zulema testified that after she married Alex, Melanie Gibb called her and was very upset, very emotional. Melanie G told her that she felt like JJ and Tylee were missing and she didn't know what happened to them. Zulema said that Melanie G told her that she felt like Chad and Lori deceived them and they were asking her to lie for them. Melanie to her that she felt like they were doing something wrong.

Zulema said her reaction to Melanie G's call was “utter confusion.” She said she didn't know what to think or how to process the information. Zulema said, “To hear my friend saying all of this is happening and at the same time knowing how much trust I put in these two people it was very, very confusing, and I was very distraught.”

Zulema that Alex was quiet and not his usual self when she went to Alex and asked him how can Kay be looking for JJ when JJ is supposed to be with Lori, how can the person that's taking care of him be looking for him. Zulema said told her "I know."

Zulema didn’t know police were looking for JJ and Tylee until after Alex died. 

Rachel asked Zulema if she had received any information about anything going on in Utah the day before Alex died. Zulema testified that on December 11th she had gotten home from work around 7/7:30 p.m. and when she went in her bedroom Alex was on the phone with Chad and Lori. Zulema walked in the room and Chad and Lori told Alex that Tammy’s body was being exhumed. Zulema was very confused about why they would be exhuming Tammy’s body. After Alex got off the phone, Zulema asked why this exhuming her body if she died of natural causes and also asked him if he had anything to do with Tammy's death. Alex answered no. Zulema said that she began pressuring him for information and said things were very “weird.” She said she kept asking Alex where Chad and Lori were. Alex eventually said to her, “I think I’m being their fall guy.” Zulema said she asked him, “Fall guy for what? What have you done that you would be the fall guy for?” Zulema said she was very frustrated because Alex wouldn’t say much. She said she continued to pressure him, and he eventually said, “Zulema, either I am a man of God, or I am not.” Zulema then confirmed that Alex died the next day.

Zulema confirmed that she kept a journal which she had handed over to law enforcement which Rachel admitted into evidence. The first page from the journal was a diagram showing multiple creations and worlds that one person can come to. Zulema said this was a diagram based on given to her by Lori and Chad. Zulema said that there are five worlds on the page, each with a Satan and a Savior. The fifth world is the lowest and the darkest world. Zulema said that it depicted what Lori and Chad said she lived. Zulema said that on the other side of the page was a circle showing limbo, where they told her the spirit go when they have been pushed out. She said, “If a person dies, there is a two-minute window where a demon can take over the body and inhabit it.” Zulema said just like they said had happened to Charles and Tammy. She said that they told her the original spirit goes into limbo and can't go anywhere because it is waiting for the body to be put to rest. Zulema confirmed that Alex absolutely believed this.

Zulema said told the court to look at what she wrote in her journal about Chad claiming in the creations that he had been the brother of Heavenly Father and Jesus, and in another creation, he had been the Holy Ghost. Rachel asked Zulema if that was true what Chad said about himself, in the circle of people around Chad and Lori, would that give him authority and power. Zulema said that it absolutely would, that he would have spiritually been the highest of anybody.

Rachel asked Zulema what Lori's ranking would be. Zulema said that Chad chose Lori for his wife and that Chad would say that he and Lori already been married seven times before on this earth. Chad also claimed that they were also married and exalted in other worlds together and she was his spiritual companion, so that put Lori in the same spiritual standing has Chad. Zulema testified that Alex absolutely believed all of that.

In all, eighteen pages of Zulema's journal was submitted into evidence.

Zulema said that the next page what that of the scale that Chad and Lori taught. The first time you come to the world you are a one, the second time you are a two and so on. She said that it would be the same thing for ratings if you were light or dark. So, it would be 1 L for light and 1 D for dark. Zulema confirmed that the lowest level is 1 and the highest was 6. She confirmed that she was a 4.2 light and Lori was a 4.3 light.

Rachel said that another page of the journal said, “cast out” and “get rid of them.” she then asked Zulema once the evil spirit was pushed out of the body how do you destroy the body. Zulema said that Lori and Chad taught every time a demon was cast out, the two-minute window leaves an opening for another one to come in. She said that spiritly they needed to prevent another demon from coming in, you need to do certain things, like using water and fire to destroy the body so that there was no other way for another demon could come in. Zulema then confirmed that in order to make sure the demon doesn't come back is to destroy the body in some way such as burning, taking the body apart or binding the body.

Next Rachel showed Zulema more pages from her journal. The next one had scales on it. Zulema said that it is a scale of ratings of people who are on Earth right now. Zulema described what was on the next one after that. She said that it from when Lori asked Chad to rate her family. Zulema then confirmed that Chad had the ratings on his computer, and he had showed her them in August of 2019. Zulema confirmed that Tylee’s rating was 4.1 dark, Charles Vallow’s was 3 light, Melanie B.’s was 3 light and Brandon’s was 3 dark.

Rachel admitted three photos into evidence. Zulema said that the first one was at the Preparing a People Conference in Rexburg. She said that Chad, Serena Sharp, Melanie Gibb was at that conference with Zulema.  Zulema said that the first photo showed her sitting with Audrey, Serena, Denae and Melanie at the conference. Rachel asked if Audrey attended several conferences. Zulema said yes and confirmed that she was friends with Chad. Zulema said that the next picture is her at Chad's table with 3 other women including Melanie Gibb and Serena. Zulema said that the last picture was of her, Melanie G, Serena and Audrey with a couple of other women at the conference. 

Rachel admitted photo of Zulema with Serena at the Preparing a People conference in Boise. Rachel then asked Zulema if she remembered chatting with Chad at the Preparing a People conference in Boise. She said she did and that they stayed at the same hotel. She then confirmed that the conference happened before Charles died, but after Chad met Lori and after Lori and Charles split up.

Zulema testified that she spoke to Chad about Lori not being at the conference and that she had canceled her trip at the last minute because Lori thought that Charles would serve her divorce papers during the conference. Zulema said that they talked about how it was the best for Lori not to be there so she could be protected, and the person who was going to serve her divorce papers wouldn’t be able to find her. Zulema said that Serena and Audrey were with her at the conference.

Rachel asked Zulema if all castings were handled the exact same way all the time. Zulema testified that they are similar but not the same. Rachel then asked Zulema how they are different than just praying for someone. Zulema said that when they were praying they were asking for what that person needed or blessing them or asking for help or deliverance. She said that a casting was specifically to cast out a evil spirit or demon. Zulema confirmed that there were castings done on Charles and Tammy that she participated in.

Rachel then asked Zulema if the group of people that would come to her house were given gifts or were told they had spiritual significance by Chad and Lori. Zulema said yes that Melanie Gibb was a gatherer and was meant to gather people who were “awake” or aware of the signs and things to come prior to the second coming. Zulema said her gift was that she was able to work with the elements. Zulema said that Chad said that Serena was a very powerful goddess. Zulema couldn't remember what Melanie B's gift was. And Alex's gift was that he was a warrior and a defender and that he was going to be training many other warriors that would be moving to Rexburg in the future. She said at that time Chad had Alex that he had only came one time to Earth and that his sole purpose was to protect Lori. Zulema testified that Alex believed this.

Rachel asked Zulema if she recalled ever talking to Alex about Lori and Charles' financial issues. Zulema said that she didn't think she did talk to him about them. Rachel then asked her if she ever talked to Alex about what had happened to Charles. Zulema said that yes, that she asked him if he was ok after he had just shot someone. Zulema said she thought that he would be in shock or struggling with what had happened. She said that Alex told her, "Zulema, he was a zombie."

Rachel then asked Zulema if Lori had explained anything to her about Charle's life insurance money. Zulema said that Lori had mentioned that Charles had a million-dollar life insurance policy, and she was the beneficiary of it.

Rachel asked Zulema if Lori talked to her about other ways to deal with Charles if the castings didn't work. Zulema said that when they were at her house at the casting in March of 2019, that Lori was laughing and said that if it didn't work out she could always put some pills in his water or something.

Rachel then asked Zulema if Lori ever told her how long she expected JJ to live. Zulema said that Lori told her that JJ was going to have a very short life, and at a meeting in August 2019, Chad said JJ would have a very short life because he was going to come right back as Colby Ryan’s child. Zulema said that Alex believed everything they told him.

Zulema confirmed that people who witnessed Christ had an elevated status and that would count as Lori if her testimony was to be believed by the group. Rachel asked Zulema if there was any evidence that Lori believed such things. Zulema said that Lori and Chad taught that if you were exalted in another probation, this time you came to the earth didn’t count for you because he had already proven yourself in another probation. Zulema said that Lori would often say, "It doesn't count for me."

Zulema testified that Alex believed everything that Lori said and that his mission, that was given to him by Chad during a blessing, was to protect her.

Rachel asked Zulema who benefited the most from Charles' death. Zulema said that Lori directly and then eventually Chad. Rachen then asked Zulema who benefited from Tylee's death. Zulema said Lori and then Chad.

Zulema then confirmed that Alex took his mission seriously to protect Lori.

The prosecution was done with their questioning of Zulema. 

John Thomas began conducting cross-examination. John said to Zulema, "Your testimony this morning was dramatically different than your testimony this afternoon. Did you talk to anyone about the case?” Zulema stated that she didn't, but her nerves were different in the morning than this afternoon. John then asked Zulema if she had taken some medication. Zulema said no, that she ate lunch. John said he was sorry.

Zulema confirmed that she met Lori in 2018 in late fall at a meeting at Melanie Gibb's house. Zulema said that Melanie Gibb often had different people come to her house to talk about their books, food storage or other topics, some of which you would encounter at a Preparing a People Conference. Zulema then confirmed that over that year or so when they met, her and Lori became friends.

Zulema confirmed that one of the connections her and Lori had with each other was their faith and that her and some of the other ladies, like Melanie Gibb were very action in the church. She confirmed that they would go to the temple quite often and that is where she'd meet up with some of the other women. She also testified that these meetings weren't always for spiritual gain, that she times they were just as friends, but that when she met with Lori they were usually about spiritual things.

Zulema confirmed that one of the things that drew her two Lori was with her personal experience meeting Jesus or having a personal experience where she had personal visitation. Zulema said that when someone has an experience like that it is the ultimate, most sacred experience that any human can have, and she found it amazing and wanted to learn more about it.

Zulema confirmed that she had her own spiritual experiences in the temple.

John read a text message Zulema had send to Chad on December 4th, 2018. 

"Hi Chad, this is Zulema. I have to tell you since you gave me that blessing i've been having visions, full awake, no more dreams, my visions have been at the temple. I've had three so far."

John then asked Zulema to tell him some of her visions. Zulema said that she wasn't exactly sure specifically what visions she were referring to at the time, but she remembered seeing herself in a beautiful room with a big table. She said she was sitting at the head of the table, and there were children and people all around. She confirmed that a man was sitting on the other end of the table, she couldn't see his face, but he was “a very light being.”

Zulema confirmed that she had been married multiple times before Chad gave her a blessing saying that she would get married. John asked Zulema if it would be a far stretch to say that she would be getting married. Zulema answered no. 

John then asked for clarifications on the castings. Zulema confirmed that they were done spiritually not physically and that she never harmed anyone or attempted to harm anyone. She confirmed that it was meant to harm or bind of that person. Zulema confirmed that she was someone that spiritually worked for the lighter side. John asked Zulema if she thought that any of that was evil or bad.

Zulema replied, "No, not at the time."

John said, "But you've since then come to think that it was evil or bad?"

Zulema answered, "There are two children that have died and a mother of five that have died. I will consider that evil. Yes, sir."

John asked Zulema if she thinks that her castings out of spirits had some effect on two children who died and the spouse of another person that died? Zulema said not that her work did, but that Chad and Lori's had.

Zulema confirmed that her job is a job coach/unemployment specialist in Arizona. She helps train people how to create resumes, apply for jobs and help them place in jobs and train them in the jobs. John asked Zulema if that was a very sophisticated job. Zulema said she wouldn't consider it sophisticated, she would consider it hard and that she was more knowledgeable than the people that she was helping.  

John said to Zulema that, "You're not a very gullible person, are you? I mean you have some. sophistication."

Zulema replied, "I have always believed people. That if i am not going to do something, someone else wouldn't do it either. So, i have been the kind of person that believes in the goodness of people. I see their positive sides, their good sides, and I tried to believe their intentions are always good. I have become a lot more cautious since meeting Chad and Lori, and my views have changed a little in regard to that."

John asked Zulema that when she met Chad and Lori if she thought they were doing good work. Zulema said that she thought they were kind, loving, righteous and law-abiding. She confirmed that she thought at the time that they were led by the spirit.

John asked Zulema when it was that she was ordained to the Church of the Firstborn. She said that she knew it was done but she didn't remember.

John asked Zulema if there was anything personal in the blessing that Chad had given to her. Zulema said that Chad was good at giving blessings and would give you lots of praise and make you feel special and make you feel very good of the person that you are. 

Zulema confirmed that she has heard other people give blessings before and she didn't think that the blessing that Chad gave her was as generic as she has gotten from other members of the church.

Zulema confirmed that she would text Chad regularly about spiritual things, asking him questions.

Zulema confirmed that when she met Chad, Lori and Melanie Gibb at Firebirds, that Chad and Lori didn't want Melanie to hear the information they wanted to tell Zulema about her past lives. Zulema said that she was very curious about what Chad had to tell her. She confirmed that it was very personal for her.

John asked Zulema what she thought about what Chad had told her about being Lori's 14-year-old daughter in a past life that was raped and dismembered. Zulema testified that she believed Chad when he told her that.

John then displayed the image from Zulema’s journal that showed the circles with multiple lives and the circle showing where spirits go to stay in limbo for two minutes after the body dies. When he asked her when and why she drew it, Zulema answered that she didn't remember.

John showed another page from Zulema’s journal depicting some drawings. Zulema testified that the drawing was in February/March of 2019 around the time Chad and Lori started teaching about the light and dark scale. She confirmed that she caried it around with her.

John then showed the page from Zulema's journal that had the words, "cast out," written on it. Zulema said that that page was done around the time they were doing the castings on Charles. She said that it would have been around March or July of 2019. She said that they were just steps you could follow to cast out an evil spirit. Numbe one was Order of the Priesthood, number two was enspell or encapsulate, next was cast out and five was burn.

Zulema confirmed that Chad and Lori taught that to prevent another demon from taking over the body, you have two minutes to burn around the body to prevent another demon from going into the body. John asked Zulema if she believed that. She said at the time she did, but now she didn't. 

John asked Zulema, "Now you think there is a larger window?"

Zulema said that she now doesn't believe anything they said, and that they made it all up.

John said," So, you don't believe demons can be cast out by humans?"

Zulema said that she doesn't believe that anything they did was right or correct, "No." Zulema said, "Do i believe that a evil spirit can be cast out? Yes, because it was done in the Bible and Jesus Christ did do it, but i believe that it is completely different than what they were trying to do." Zulema said that she believed that Chad and Lori didn't have the authority to cast out evil spirits and they also didn't have the right intentions.

John asked Zulema what the step "burn" meant. She said it meant you were to burn around the body for two minutes so another spirit wouldn't come into the same body. Zulema said it was done spiritually and verbally during the casting and had nothing to do with physical burning.

John then read that the sixth level said, "escorted" and that seventh was sealed. He asked Zulema what that entailed. Zulema said that Chad and Lori said that if they had angels come up and they would escort the demon or the evil spirit that had been cast out of the body. She said that then it would be sealed away and not be able to bother anyone else.

Zulema confirmed steps were to the next level is to banish, then expel, reject, purge and then evict the evil spirit. She then confirmed that under evict it said cast out, get rid of. She testified that the goal was to cast out and banish the evil spirit or demon. Zulema said that written next was forced to leave by official action, take away the right of being there, drive out, as in excommunicated and blasted, then Mathew 8:16. Zulema said that Mathew 8:16 is a scripture in the Bible in the New Testament. She said that part of the scripture said cast out with his sword. Then after Mathew 8:16 it was 10:1, which was "he gave them power to cast out unclean spirits."

Zulema testified that Chad and Lori's teachings seem to be some scripture mixed with their own philosophies. She said that if you read in the New Testament Jesus is telling the evil spirits to leave, but it doesn't say anything about burning or rejecting or spells or having to be escorted or sealed.

Court was concluded for the day.